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Post by Sharky on Aug 20, 2011 15:39:35 GMT -5
I hope Toronto has a second line center lines up somewhere interesting move by arguably the favorite to win the cup this season.
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Post by LeafsGM on Aug 20, 2011 15:47:56 GMT -5
I hope Toronto has a second line center lines up somewhere interesting move by arguably the favorite to win the cup this season. Dubinsky wouldn't have been my 2C. Gonna move Zetterberg to C so the top 2 spots are set. It's definitely a salary move, and to set up for a few more trades to come
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2011 15:48:20 GMT -5
I hope Toronto has a second line center lines up somewhere interesting move by arguably the favorite to win the cup this season. Zetterberg would fit nicely.
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Post by Sharky on Aug 20, 2011 20:16:58 GMT -5
I can definitely understand it as a salary move.
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Post by Hawks on Aug 25, 2011 13:01:44 GMT -5
I understand this from Toronto's point of view, to cut salary to sign Zetterberg.
But I don't understand it from Vancouver's point of view at all.
Coburn is rated high and more proven of a player than Alzner, and Wellman and Rakhshani are likely career minor leaguers.
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Post by Sharky on Aug 25, 2011 13:06:21 GMT -5
Alzner's value IMO is artificially inflated because he was 5th overall. Really, I don't think he has much upside as a fantasy player.
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Post by gmcanucks on Aug 25, 2011 13:13:27 GMT -5
Can't say I agree with you, Gavin. Aside from improving my organizational depth, any Capitals game I watched the last third of the season Alzner and Carlson were the Caps #1 defensive pairing. He's a 24-25 minute a game player moving forward.
Plus I think both Wellman and Rakhshani will both play and contribute at the pro level.
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Post by Hawks on Aug 25, 2011 13:30:56 GMT -5
Can't say I agree with you, Gavin. Aside from improving my organizational depth, any Capitals game I watched the last third of the season Alzner and Carlson were the Caps #1 defensive pairing. He's a 24-25 minute a game player moving forward. Plus I think both Wellman and Rakhshani will both play and contribute at the pro level. Alzner has always been praised for his offensive potential, which hasn't really materialized. His defensive game is alright for a youngster, but Coburn's is better is really what I was saying. Wellman is currently listed 11th on Minnesota's Depth chart, he's had two quick stints in the NHL but spent most of last year in the AHL, where is had an average performance. Hockey's future rates him at a 6.5 C, which is to say, at best, he'll make an okay 3rd liner at the NHL level. Fairly worthless fantasy potential IMO, those kinda players are a dime a dozen. Rakhshani is currently listed 9th on the Islanders Depth Chart. He played 2 NHL games last year, ending with nothing but a -1. He had above average AHL numbers, which is a good, but his hockey's future prospect rating is 7.0 D, which means he could make a solid top 6 forward some day, but its not exactly super likely it'll happen. It gives you some depth of course, but its likely neither of those players will have ratings next year, both of them are at BEST 3-4 years out from having a real chance to be NHL impact players. Its not a trade I would have made, but thats what this thread is for
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Post by LeafsGM on Aug 25, 2011 13:50:29 GMT -5
HF is a good guide and all but if players careers were based on it, then a one time 6.5B Dan Girardi would not be a top 2 dman today. Don't put too much into those rankings, HF writers sometimes know less about the teams they are covering than the fans do. Rakhshani is nearly a ppg ahl player with great defense and leadership. Wellman is supposed to make the Minnesota top 9. Alzner is projected to continue along his development and fill into a top pairing shutdown dman. This is about as normal as a trade gets.
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Post by Sharky on Aug 25, 2011 15:08:47 GMT -5
Even if Wellman and Rakhshani make the NHL, like Gavin said "dime a dozen" player. They aren't really a significant part of the trade, except for the fact that Wellman makes 1.4 million...
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Post by gmcanucks on Aug 25, 2011 15:32:25 GMT -5
So basically, using Gavin's argument, I've got two potential Top 6 or Top 9 forwards depending on who you believe, and a 23 year old shut-down defenseman with upside, for a 27-year old defenseman who had 16 points last year in 82 games. I can live with that.
Not sure I see where I'm giving up all of this offense on the back-end with Alzner instead of Coburn. In my thought process, I think Alzner will be every bit as good as Coburn, so if either Wellman or Rakhshani make a contribution down the road, I'm ahead.
Wellman's already played 27 NHL games, is projected to make the Wild's Top 9 this year by Dobber, among others, and had 35 points in only 42 games in his rookie AHL season - a bit better than average I think.
Rakhshani finished 19th in AHL scoring in his rookie season with 62 points in 66 games. He's a bit of a longer term project and his lack of size is a concern but he has goal scorer's instincts and he's super fast.
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Post by Hawks on Aug 25, 2011 15:49:46 GMT -5
Really, I just think Coburn is a better player than Alzner. And I think the other two guys are a few years away from making any potential impact. I don't see Wellman making the top 9 Wild roster this year, but even if he did, the top 9 really means "3rd liner", and a 3rd line player, who as a forward MIGHT get 15-20 points this year, if he played all season, is not exactly something to get all that excited about. You could grab any of the 60 OV players still left in UFA and have a good 75% chance they'll hit about the same point mark. Personally, I just don't see either of these guys really materializing into good fantasy players...I could be proven wrong, and if that happens, you're more than welcome to tell me "I told you so ", but I just don't see it. In my mind you traded a better D-man, for a worse D-man, and 2 players who MAYBE might be low line players for you in a couple years, plus you took on salary (which was obviously the intention of the deal, for Toronto to clear room for Zetterberg). Its obviously a pass-able trade, its just fairly "meh" in terms of the potential benefit to you (canucks), and as I said, not a deal I likely would have bothered with, unless my team was in a serious mode to stockpile potential.
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Post by gmcanucks on Aug 25, 2011 16:20:20 GMT -5
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Gavin. ;D .
I guess we'll know the answer in a couple of years, which was my intention. I am looking to the future not the present with this deal.
And as far as taking on salary, I did take on $1.4 million in additional salary, but I needed two or three players to make the league minimum of 35. As you say I can probably sign a couple of veteran 60 OVers for 500K each, but I doubt I'm going to get anyone with potential in the unassigned for 700,000 a season. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Post by LeafsGM on Aug 25, 2011 16:27:38 GMT -5
I'm a little confused here.. we just had Richards traded for a huge package, and we're discussing THIS deal? Gavin, Alzner is 5 years younger and not far off Coburn's ratings right now. Your argument that he traded Coburn for a lesser dman is flawed, because you'll have to wait til he's 27 to say that.
You keep knocking the other 2 guys as insignificant, but I implore you to look at what I traded Purcell for last year in the exact same situation I'm in now. He also looked like an insignificant fantasy player at that time but look now.
Again, I know its all opinions but I don't see anything wrong with this deal. Makes sense from both sides.
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Post by Sharky on Aug 25, 2011 16:48:22 GMT -5
I agree with Eug there... we should be talking about the Richards deal.
I was a little surprised that Nashville managed to get a 1st round pick back in that deal.
Nashville has done a great job this off season... at the beginning of the off season it looked like the Preds were still a few seasons away from being a big force in the league, but after adding Stastny and Richards on forward they could be a contender real soon.
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