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Post by AvsGM on Sept 21, 2012 16:47:20 GMT -5
You seriously think any of those deals is less even than this one? Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned them. Ok, so it's not the players involved but yet a teams cap room that decides the fairness of a deal? If Alfredsson is this amazing elite talent then why did Anaheim get away with a 2.5mil salary? So one year he's done and then all of a sudden he's a god? Not to mention Adam and Al have been here quite a while, so basically you're questioning Al's judgement and what direction he wants to take his team?
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Post by Sharky on Sept 21, 2012 16:48:07 GMT -5
We've seen worse deals this off season.
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Post by Hawks on Sept 21, 2012 16:54:03 GMT -5
You seriously think any of those deals is less even than this one? Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned them. Ok, so it's not the players involved but yet a teams cap room that decides the fairness of a deal? If Alfredsson is this amazing elite talent then why did Anaheim get away with a 2.5mil salary? So one year he's done and then all of a sudden he's a god? Not to mention Adam and Al have been here quite a while, so basically you're questioning Al's judgement and what direction he wants to take his team? How do low line and depth players for low picks compare at all? Alfie was hurt the previous year and rated poorly, now he'll likely have really good ratings for 2 years (lockout = no new ratings, so likely using the same ratings twice, we had to do that before). Situations and circumstances can alter the perceived "fairness" of a deal, absolutely, thats ALWAYS been the case. All I'm saying is, its not a deal I would ever make, could easily get more. Not like Alfie sat on the block for weeks or anything. If Alfie was 10m or something, its a totally different trade. But its a great player, with a great contract...for very little return. However, is anyone else out there wants to trade Chicago a 76 SC top line player for a projected 3rd line rookie and a late first, MY PM box is WIDE open.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 16:57:11 GMT -5
You seriously think any of those deals is less even than this one? Howard isn't that great, hes a good goalie, and it was a clear Boston salary cut so he could sign more important players. None of those should even be mentioned, in the same breathe, lol. I don't wanna start a big fight over it or anything, but come on...if I had Alfie and someone offered me a a very late 1st round pick and a rookie 6th round pick, thats projected to be a good 3rd liner, I'd laugh and likely not even respond. Regardless of cap room Boston got smoked on the Howard deal. You just see me getting a 76SC and vote no. Alfredsson will be gone in 2 seasons, less if there isn't a season this year and Hagelin will be a 2nd liner at worst for the majority of the 12 years Anaheim can hold on to him. Pro-rate Hagelin over 82 games and he had 4 less points than Landeskog.
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Post by Hawks on Sept 21, 2012 17:03:26 GMT -5
You seriously think any of those deals is less even than this one? Howard isn't that great, hes a good goalie, and it was a clear Boston salary cut so he could sign more important players. None of those should even be mentioned, in the same breathe, lol. I don't wanna start a big fight over it or anything, but come on...if I had Alfie and someone offered me a a very late 1st round pick and a rookie 6th round pick, thats projected to be a good 3rd liner, I'd laugh and likely not even respond. Regardless of cap room Boston got smoked on the Howard deal. You just see me getting a 76SC and vote no. Alfredsson will be gone in 2 seasons, less if there isn't a season this year and Hagelin will be a 2nd liner at worst for the majority of the 12 years Anaheim can hold on to him. Pro-rate Hagelin over 82 games and he had 4 less points than Landeskog. Its got nothing to do with it being YOU getting him Adam, I don't appreciate the accusation.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 17:11:18 GMT -5
Regardless of cap room Boston got smoked on the Howard deal. You just see me getting a 76SC and vote no. Alfredsson will be gone in 2 seasons, less if there isn't a season this year and Hagelin will be a 2nd liner at worst for the majority of the 12 years Anaheim can hold on to him. Pro-rate Hagelin over 82 games and he had 4 less points than Landeskog. Its got nothing to do with it being YOU getting him Adam, I don't appreciate the accusation. You're turning it into something it's not. What I said/meant was, you see me getting a 76SC, not you see ME getting a 76SC. That probably doesn't seem like it makes sense, but it does. And thanks for addressing my other legitimate points
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 17:14:35 GMT -5
We've seen worse deals this off season. But as long as one team is strapped for cap room then it makes it ok
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Post by BruinsGM on Sept 21, 2012 17:24:18 GMT -5
We've seen worse deals this off season. But as long as one team is strapped for cap room then it makes it ok You're changing the subject but I have to defend myself a) he was on the block and I took the best offer b) he was my backup making 5+ million c) the money allowed me to sign a 71OV winger, replacement backup goalie, and I got 2 picks in the top 30. Totally the worst trade ever.. thanks for dragging me into your whine fest. Seriously people, let everyone vote and if it passes it passes. If it doesn't then you rework it. This moaning before its even voted on is so dumb.
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Post by Philly on Sept 21, 2012 17:30:31 GMT -5
But as long as one team is strapped for cap room then it makes it ok You're changing the subject but I have to defend myself a) he was on the block and I took the best offer b) he was my backup making 5+ million c) the money allowed me to sign a 71OV winger, replacement backup goalie, and I got 2 picks in the top 30. Totally the worst trade ever.. thanks for dragging me into your whine fest. Seriously people, let everyone vote and if it passes it passes. If it doesn't then you rework it. This moaning before its even voted on is so dumb. Actually I thought both were making an attempt to exercise diplomacy. Gm's want to know why you would reject their trade and when you try to explain, they get upset, human nature I would say. If you reject a trade you are better off keepin your mouth shut.
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Post by Sharky on Sept 21, 2012 17:34:39 GMT -5
We've seen worse deals this off season. But as long as one team is strapped for cap room then it makes it ok I didn't say that. It just seems odd that there is a big discussion about this trade, when far worse ones have passes this off season! Like the Howard trade, Green trade, etc. I don't think this is a bad trade. Detroit's pick will be 20-26th overall and Hagelin is a decent young player.
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Post by Hawks on Sept 21, 2012 17:46:27 GMT -5
Its got nothing to do with it being YOU getting him Adam, I don't appreciate the accusation. You're turning it into something it's not. What I said/meant was, you see me getting a 76SC, not you see ME getting a 76SC. That probably doesn't seem like it makes sense, but it does. And thanks for addressing my other legitimate points K, just seemed like you were trying to say something else, so sorry. Anyway, in regards to the other points: Maybe, nobody can know for sure when Alfie will retire. You get likely at least 2 seasons, possibly all 4. Hagelin is a 6th round pick that scouts project as a 3rd liner. He's not a BAD player or anything, but he'll likely average mid-40's to low 50's in point totals in the NHL at best. So 2nd line at best, not worst. The pick is low, probably bottom 5. Landeskog is the new Captain of the Avs, and way way out of Hagelins league, you can't really compare the two.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 17:57:13 GMT -5
Jake, I wasn't trying to take a dig at you or misquote you. I was agreeing, but with added sarcasm.
And Jim, I'm not trying to drag you in the discussion. I was just using your trade as an example, as I did with several others.
On another note, I really feel that opinions on trades should be held until AFTER the final results. I will be the first to admit that I am guilty as well, but this whole "rally the troops" posting of opinions the minute a trade is posted is pretty crappy. I think we should let the vote be the vote and reserve the comments until AFTER.
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Post by Philly on Sept 21, 2012 17:59:48 GMT -5
Jake, I wasn't trying to take a dig at you or misquote you. I was agreeing, but with added sarcasm. And Jim, I'm not trying to drag you in the discussion. I was just using your trade as an example, as I did with several others. On another note, I really feel that opinions on trades should be held until AFTER the final results. I will be the first to admit that I am guilty as well, but this whole "rally the troops" posting of opinions the minute a trade is posted is pretty crappy. I think we should let the vote be the vote and reserve the comments until AFTER. Well said Adam.
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Post by Hawks on Sept 21, 2012 18:07:20 GMT -5
The only reason I disagree is because sadly a LOT of GMs vote without even looking at the deal in any depth first. They simply auto-yes every trade, I see it a lot. :/
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Post by LeafsGM on Sept 21, 2012 18:10:38 GMT -5
Nothing wrong w this trade IMO. I actually really like Hagelin, one of the fastest guys in NHL 13. Sure Alfie is a good piece, but Hagelins ceiling is higher than a 3rd liner, more like a 2nd liner with speed and scoring potential. Hell, Girardi was projected to be a depth defenseman and now hes top 5 in the league.
Hagelin had a solid rookie season and has ratings good enough for the 3rd line in our league. The 1st makes it even. Again, nothing worth rejecting. Just a matter of opinions.
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