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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 20:45:33 GMT -5
I love Toews but Crosby is hands down the best player in the world.
Since when is his defense awful?
If you want reasons, he is by far the best offensive player in the game right now (with nobody really even close), he is better than average defensively, better than average on Face-offs, has twice shown up as one of the top 2-3 forwards on Team Canada while winning gold, is the best player at making teammates better (Dupuis, Kunitz, Hornqvist) and does it all with more attention on and off the ice than any other player in the league.
You want to talk about some BS Toews would have 3-4 cups in Pittsburgh and Crosby would have 1 in Chicago? Crosby with Kane and Sharp/Hossa on his wings would be insane. He already is dominating the league in PPG playing with secondary guys like Dupuis and Kunitz putting him with real talent would be scary to think of.
And again this is coming from a guy that loves Toews and would gladly have him on my team, start a new team with him and have him lead my favorite team anytime of the day.
The only thing I see changing Crosby from maintaining his spot as undisputed top player in the world is injuries. He has been missing more and more time and if he continues to be unable to play full seasons maybe then I would entertain a new guys (in my mind likely Toews, Price, or Tavares maybe McDavid in 5 years if he lives up to the hype.)
I would say you would have a much better argument with folks that try to put AO into the top player in the world argument as for me he is the guy that clearly does not belong and who Toews is clearly better than.
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Post by Hawks on Aug 30, 2015 13:11:31 GMT -5
Really? McDavid is on the list? Kid hasn't even played an NHL game yet. Any article brazen enough to do that should be taken with a heavy grain of salt...
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Post by Hawks on Aug 30, 2015 13:13:00 GMT -5
Really? How many other guys could turn Pascal Dupuis into a 60-point player and Chris Kunitz into a 35-goal scorer. I'm not really talking about just line mates. In my opinion, Toews makes every player on his team a better player... Even the ones he doesn't play with. Basically I'm referring to Toews leadership ability. I'm not sure Crosby inspires players in the same way. Dupuis and Kunitz are not bad players. Dupuis was a 40 point player, Kunitz had scored 20 goals a year in almost every season he had played (including on the Ducks). Crosby increased their production by about 20 points each. Hell, you could argue Jarome Iginla turning Craig Conroy and Daymond Langkow from 50-60 point guys to 70-80 point players is equally impressive. That being said, as I said before, I still think Crosby is the better player. Physically dominant, impossibly to knock off the puck, tremendously quick, creative... He has it all. Toews just has the "intangibles" that everyone seems to have trouble describing. I see Crosby get taken from the puck often and fairly easily. I don't see him as a player who is strong on the puck. His give-away numbers reflect that as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 14:14:21 GMT -5
I'm not really talking about just line mates. In my opinion, Toews makes every player on his team a better player... Even the ones he doesn't play with. Basically I'm referring to Toews leadership ability. I'm not sure Crosby inspires players in the same way. Dupuis and Kunitz are not bad players. Dupuis was a 40 point player, Kunitz had scored 20 goals a year in almost every season he had played (including on the Ducks). Crosby increased their production by about 20 points each. Hell, you could argue Jarome Iginla turning Craig Conroy and Daymond Langkow from 50-60 point guys to 70-80 point players is equally impressive. That being said, as I said before, I still think Crosby is the better player. Physically dominant, impossibly to knock off the puck, tremendously quick, creative... He has it all. Toews just has the "intangibles" that everyone seems to have trouble describing. I see Crosby get taken from the puck often and fairly easily. I don't see him as a player who is strong on the puck. His give-away numbers reflect that as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 14:17:39 GMT -5
Saying Crosby is not strong on the puck is about the dumbest post on the board.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 14:42:35 GMT -5
Ya that is an odd statement as I would say he is arguably the best at keeping the puck on his stick.
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Post by Hawks on Aug 30, 2015 21:25:54 GMT -5
Unless you watch him play...in which case you see differently. Mostly its physical play that ruins him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 22:36:24 GMT -5
I would say it's 100% watching him play that shows how awesome he is at maintaining the puck while shielding guys off of him.
And when is he getting "ruined"?
He has led the league in PPG (often by quite a large margin) for the past 5 years.
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Post by Hawks on Aug 31, 2015 9:58:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 10:23:55 GMT -5
Except that is a horrible way to rank two-way play.
And those numbers tell us absolutely nothing about a players two-way ability.
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Post by Hawks on Aug 31, 2015 10:35:55 GMT -5
Give-away / take-away is very informative...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 11:55:25 GMT -5
It's widely known that some of the most creative players and best passers in the league lead that stat because they try things no one else will.
Haters gonna hate Crosby. Your argument is pretty weak.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 13:40:57 GMT -5
Giveaway leaders last year were Subban, Tavares, Burns, Karlsson, Wideman. Crosby was 59th. I'm not saying giveaways is a meaningful stat, just that Crosby isn't near the top. And the players that have the puck the most will give it away the most. They'll also take the most shots. Attempt the most passes. And yes, defenseman will have the most generally Crosby was 19th amongst forwards, tied with Malkin who played eight fewer games, and behind guys like Ovechkin, Getzlaf, Pavelski. Hey. There are five Sharks forwards in the top ten. A giveaway in San Jose may not be labelled as a giveaway in Columbus or Anaheim or Minnesota...
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Post by AvsGM on Aug 31, 2015 13:41:36 GMT -5
Give-away / take-away is very informative... Tavares had the second most giveaways last season, I guess he sucks Crosby is the best player in the world, get over it
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Post by Hawks on Aug 31, 2015 13:44:50 GMT -5
It's widely known that some of the most creative players and best passers in the league lead that stat because they try things no one else will. Haters gonna hate Crosby. Your argument is pretty weak. Ahh, okay, so based on that logic, other "playmakers" who try extra things with the puck should also have low scores right? (Remember, the higher the score the better) Patrick Kane - 1.20 Jonathan Toews - 1.32 Rick Nash - 1.76 Pavel Datsyuk - 2.03 Vladimir Tarasenko - 1.84 John Tavares - 0.86 (on the low side, but higher than Crosby!) Thats all I could lookup in a quick time frame here at work, I'm sure there are many many more examples of famous puck artists who do have good numbers here. So the excuse "he tries so much more" isn't very valid, clearly he is trying shit he shouldn't be trying if his numbers are so bad in that category. Tavares had the second most giveaways last season, I guess he sucks Crosby is the best player in the world, get over it Other than PPG…I see no other evidence him being the "best", just a lot of talk about how he's so great, even though outside of his PPG, his stats aren't that impressive.
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