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Post by Hawks on Nov 21, 2008 17:36:13 GMT -5
I like pie
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Post by MontyBurns on Nov 21, 2008 17:59:57 GMT -5
Long story short stop whining. When half the lauge decides your trade wasnt good even after you defend it in 30 posts its over. Oh I'm sorry, I forgot I didn't have the right to "defend" my deal or the fuckin' bullshit personal insinuations that there is something "sketchy" going on. Which, is a direct quote! Ok new rule I guess, when a trade is getting rejected and people are attacking your personal character, you are not allowed to respond anymore because Monty feels it's "whining". And as much as I'm having to defend this trade and myself, I have never seen you protest a trade so intensely, especially with some of the deals that have been passed. I guess you really wanted Alfie bad huh? alright, i will take it from here and say that man you are getting touchy. All i said at the beggining was "Really?" you came back at me and i defended myself. I didnt mention taht you were the one helping kings evaluate trade until right now, cause you continually seem to think taht i am out to get you. I am not. I would nto have made such a big deal if you didnt attack me. I will leave it as is for now, becuase i cant remake my point again, and theres no point in bitching anymore than i have. You know how i feel. I still love the leauge and the work jon and gavin do. So canaidiens out!
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Post by LeafsGM on Nov 21, 2008 18:00:33 GMT -5
September 19, 2004 I traded Brian Campbell, some guy no one had heard of and was on no one's radar to Chicago for Adam Graves and Sylvain Lefebvre. Looks like a horrible deal today, but it helped me make it to the second round. Two old rated dudes for some young dude who may or may not become something. That's part of the fun of trades. Will they pan out or not? Some people stock up on the no names and unassigneds and see how it pans out. Some people like me. It's fun. I voted yes for the trade. only problem is, in 2004, brian campbell was already and up and coming puck moving dman with buffulo, and was worth taking the risk on. the guys involved in this trade (after versteeg and numminen) arent up and coming, and are not projected to make their teams this season or next, let alone the top lines of their teams.. its basically a crap shoot. they could end up playing in the AHL for a few years, or could have a good camp, and make the team's 3rd line.. bottom line, these are not players that are predicted to be rated ANYTIME SOON... and here i am thinking that only players that get rated, or will get rated sometime soon, and will get ratings that will contribute to our teams matter.. i dont even know how scuderi and a 3rd got involved in this.. but the bottom line, this is an aweful aweful trade, no matter how u look at it.. if youre telling me that this is the best offer kings received for alfie, then theres something seriously wrong with our league. alfredsson should have garnished AT LEAST 1 bluechip prospect/player, if not more. whats bluechip you ask? at least 1 guy off the top 50 prospects list.. too bad half of them are on calgary.. and if people arent willing to give up a top prospect for a guy of alfredsson's caliber, then we have a whole other problem. when i traded for jagr few years back, i didnt think twice about giving up my youth, because i knew what i was getting in return. same situation now, except that no significant youth is going back in return to the kings. this deal stinks.
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Post by AvsGM on Nov 21, 2008 18:17:36 GMT -5
alright, i will take it from here and say that man you are getting touchy. Why wouldn't I be? Forget about your opinion on the deal being bad as you're insulting LA's intelligence, not mine. It's when you call it "sketchy" and insinuate the validity of the trade that yes, I will get a little touchy. All I did was provide him with some resource links and give him opinions on players that he asked me about. Any decisions he makes are ultimately HIS decisions.
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Post by LeafsGM on Nov 21, 2008 18:42:19 GMT -5
jon man, i think what it comes down to is that kings hasnt exactly been too involved with his team.. you just need to look at his roster, and consider that hes been a bottom feeder 3 out of the past 4 years, and you'll see his level of involvement/care. im not saying that kings completely doesnt care, but i am saying that his team isnt exactly on his top priority list.. thats fine, we've all been there, but if he took a little more time to investigate and msg other gms (other than the ones he knows), he would find out that he can get much much better deals out there..
thats the single biggest problem i have with this trade and with the league.. i really only get to talk trade on a regular basis with about 5-6 gms out of 26..
i dont think kings has msged me once regarding a trade or anything else. looking over his current roster, i dont see much valuable pieces other than Dan Ellis and Thomas Hickey.. alfredsson is clearly his best asset, and youre not giving him anything to make his team better in the long run.. in fact youre making it worse.
im trying to make a point about parity in the league, or lack there of.. i look at the kings after this trade, and you might as well write him off for the next 3-4 seasons.. ill even go as far as to say he should be expanded.. if you want parity, then he should demand at least 2 major core pieces for alfie, not versteeg and a bunch of crap.
and you dont have to respond to what im saying, cause u rarely do.. but at least acknowledge it.
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Post by AvsGM on Nov 21, 2008 18:59:41 GMT -5
but if he took a little more time to investigate and msg other gms (other than the ones he knows), he would find out that he can get much much better deals out there.. I will let LA decide if he would like to state the deals he got offered and from who. I do know that they were very, very few though. lol, I try and respond to anything specifically addressed to me. I see your point and do think it's a valid concern. I have no issue with you or anything you've said so far, what so ever
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Post by Philly on Nov 21, 2008 19:12:31 GMT -5
Cheer up guys, you could be my age with one foot in, and the other on a banana peel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2008 14:36:42 GMT -5
jon man, i think what it comes down to is that kings hasnt exactly been too involved with his team.. you just need to look at his roster, and consider that hes been a bottom feeder 3 out of the past 4 years, and you'll see his level of involvement/care. im not saying that kings completely doesnt care, but i am saying that his team isnt exactly on his top priority list.. thats fine, we've all been there, but if he took a little more time to investigate and msg other gms (other than the ones he knows), he would find out that he can get much much better deals out there.. thats the single biggest problem i have with this trade and with the league.. i really only get to talk trade on a regular basis with about 5-6 gms out of 26.. i dont think kings has msged me once regarding a trade or anything else. looking over his current roster, i dont see much valuable pieces other than Dan Ellis and Thomas Hickey.. alfredsson is clearly his best asset, and youre not giving him anything to make his team better in the long run.. in fact youre making it worse. im trying to make a point about parity in the league, or lack there of.. i look at the kings after this trade, and you might as well write him off for the next 3-4 seasons.. ill even go as far as to say he should be expanded.. if you want parity, then he should demand at least 2 major core pieces for alfie, not versteeg and a bunch of crap. and you dont have to respond to what im saying, cause u rarely do.. but at least acknowledge it. I couldnt have said it better... Listen, this is where my concern is.. like eugo said, kings committment hasnt exactly been to his team, and all of a sudden he makes this deal... with a guy he knows rather well. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as an asshole or what not, but I'm looking at it in the interest of the league. If this deal is made,t heres no way that franchise tunrs it around ANYTIME soon. I will leave it at the fact that this deal .. w ould be bad for the league.
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Post by MontyBurns on Nov 22, 2008 14:46:13 GMT -5
i vote for this issue to be dead. end it pls. vote is over
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2008 16:27:59 GMT -5
The league has spoken, I was waiting to chime in on this until the trade vote was over, didn't want to add fuel to the fire. Why did opinions on trades all of a sudden turn into personal attacks and wrongful allegations. I contacted five teams before I put Alfie on the block because they inquired about him in the past, so they got first crack. I sent out four trade offers (to those five teams) and they all said no. I was asking too much for him or he was too expensive for there team. After I put him on the block, one team contacted me for his services and I declined that offer (sorry PENS my bad, I didn't let you know that until now) I had more offers for my 2nd overall than I did for Alfie. So in my opinion on that trade, it was the best one I received. I thought the prospects and young players AVS offered was better than the ones Montreal offered, end of story it's just that simple. Montreal said he wasn't interested if that was the cost and if I had deals elsewhere then go (I still have the PM) It's a hunch, a shot in the dark, I see potential in those players. Plus I'm counting on my first round pick to play as well next year. Maybe I should have gotten more or gave up a little less, that's why theres an opinions on trades thread not opinions on GM thread It almost seems like a witch hunt here (Philly was around in those days ) the teams that are complaining the most about me and my dedication to the league are the same teams that wanted something from me that I won't give up. No not that you deviants, if the league wants to vote me out than lets start a thread for it. I don't want to leave, contrary to "popular" belief I love this SIM hockey, it makes me watch the NHL a little closer, but I won't tolerate my integrity or honestly being questioned here...at all!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2008 17:03:13 GMT -5
The league has spoken, I was waiting to chime in on this until the trade vote was over, didn't want to add fuel to the fire. Why did opinions on trades all of a sudden turn into personal attacks and wrongful allegations. I contacted five teams before I put Alfie on the block because they inquired about him in the past, so they got first crack. I sent out four trade offers (to those five teams) and they all said no. I was asking too much for him or he was too expensive for there team. After I put him on the block, one team contacted me for his services and I declined that offer (sorry PENS my bad, I didn't let you know that until now) I had more offers for my 2nd overall than I did for Alfie. So in my opinion on that trade, it was the best one I received. I thought the prospects and young players AVS offered was better than the ones Montreal offered, end of story it's just that simple. Montreal said he wasn't interested if that was the cost and if I had deals elsewhere then go (I still have the PM) It's a hunch, a shot in the dark, I see potential in those players. Plus I'm counting on my first round pick to play as well next year. Maybe I should have gotten more or gave up a little less, that's why theres an opinions on trades thread not opinions on GM thread It almost seems like a witch hunt here (Philly was around in those days ) the teams that are complaining the most about me and my dedication to the league are the same teams that wanted something from me that I won't give up. No not that you deviants, if the league wants to vote me out than lets start a thread for it. I don't want to leave, contrary to "popular" belief I love this SIM hockey, it makes me watch the NHL a little closer, but I won't tolerate my integrity or honestly being questioned here...at all!!! If I remember correctly this is not the first, or second time something like has happened with one of your trades. Honestly I give you a lot of credit for staying around. I know I probably would have left by now. I mean honestly, what's the point of staying and having a team if you're not allowed to do with it what you want! It's not like that jackass GM in NYR we just had for two weeks where the league approved every single one of those moronic trades without question! I believe you have been here since day 1, so I think that should count for something, but obviously it doesn't. When your trades get microscopically scrutinized while some kid trades away key players for bad draft picks without one issue being raised, it's a sad state! Honestly I wouldn't blame you for leaving!
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Post by Philly on Nov 22, 2008 17:50:25 GMT -5
I don't have any problem with Mike myself and would hate to see him leave. He is a vetern GM of this league of 5yrs. He has done everything required and is always a pleasure to talk to. He is not the 1st guy to lose some of the interest while rebuilding. No one I know wants you out Mike.
I'm glad you chimmed in though, but all the rest needs to stop and should have yesterday except for Mike, who has a right to defend himself. When we make comments let's try to think of one's feelings, their are alot of sensative guys here and we need to respect that. I don't think it requires anymore chatter. Let's move on and not beat it in the ground any longer.
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Post by AvsGM on Nov 22, 2008 17:57:38 GMT -5
I don't have any problem with Mike myself and would hate to see him leave. He is a vetern GM of this league of 5yrs. He has done everything required and is always a pleasure to talk to. He is not the 1st guy to lose some of the interest while rebuilding. No one I know wants you out Mike. I'm glad you chimmed in though, but all the rest needs to stop and should have yesterday except for Mike, who has a right to defend himself. When we make comments let's try to think of one's feelings, their are alot of sensative guys here and we need to respect that. I don't think it requires anymore chatter. Let's move on and not beat it in the ground any longer. I will make this my final comment on the matter.....I find it quite ridiculous that a trade that has a difference of only 3 votes has garnered this much attention. There has been votes that were way more lopsided on the veto side that did not kick up this much dust, and there have been fkn horrible trades by suspect GMs that pass with flying colors and not a word said, kinda sad in my opinion and very disheartening!
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Nov 22, 2008 18:16:44 GMT -5
The league has spoken, I was waiting to chime in on this until the trade vote was over, didn't want to add fuel to the fire. Why did opinions on trades all of a sudden turn into personal attacks and wrongful allegations. I contacted five teams before I put Alfie on the block because they inquired about him in the past, so they got first crack. I sent out four trade offers (to those five teams) and they all said no. I was asking too much for him or he was too expensive for there team. After I put him on the block, one team contacted me for his services and I declined that offer (sorry PENS my bad, I didn't let you know that until now) I had more offers for my 2nd overall than I did for Alfie. So in my opinion on that trade, it was the best one I received. I thought the prospects and young players AVS offered was better than the ones Montreal offered, end of story it's just that simple. Montreal said he wasn't interested if that was the cost and if I had deals elsewhere then go (I still have the PM) It's a hunch, a shot in the dark, I see potential in those players. Plus I'm counting on my first round pick to play as well next year. Maybe I should have gotten more or gave up a little less, that's why theres an opinions on trades thread not opinions on GM thread It almost seems like a witch hunt here (Philly was around in those days ) the teams that are complaining the most about me and my dedication to the league are the same teams that wanted something from me that I won't give up. No not that you deviants, if the league wants to vote me out than lets start a thread for it. I don't want to leave, contrary to "popular" belief I love this SIM hockey, it makes me watch the NHL a little closer, but I won't tolerate my integrity or honestly being questioned here...at all!!! Well said, Mike! I'll cast the 1st vote than...you stay!!! I've been reluctant to weigh in on subject, but did offer up some opinions to Mike via PM when asked... I have to admit I voted NO...I'm not so to the extreme as some other GMs, but the present deal simply needs some tinkering imo - I've had to do it on a few occassions in the past; admittedly, was't to happy about it, but i grinned and beared it... *It might be as simple as Mike NOT adding to Alfie (ie Scuderi {yes, the Scud Missile...lol}& the 3rd rnd pick). * And/Or: Avs could add replace one of the elements with Dennis Persson (former 1st rnd prospect) or maybe Avs 1st in 2010 -->The JGHL Kings are far from a total lost cause as well...there is work to do, but plenty to work with: *2nd overall this yr - Can you say Stamkos, Doughty or another hot prospect like Pietrangelo, Bogosian or even Filatov!!! *Dan Ellis *Tomas Hickey *2 early 2nd rnders in this yrs draft - basically equivalent to 2 late 1st rnders *SOme other decent prospects: Gord Baldwin, Kevin Marshall, Mitch Fadden, Petr Vrana, Simon Danis-Pepin, Taylor Ellington, Thomas Hickey, Yannick Weber *All draft picks in upcoming drafts; will likely have some great 1st rnd picks next couple of seasons. *ALFIE - or whatever the return might be! *I like the future of Campoli & Nigel Dawes *Satan & Nylander - although both UFAs *other guys with value: Brent Johnson, Fiddler, Scuderi, Jurcina, possibly Oullett *PLUS: next couple of seasons should allow for some quality free agent spending -->Within 3 yrs, Mike could be laughing at many of you nay-sayers! My 2 pesos worth... Let's move on and not turn trade vote discussions into attacks in the future... ***My last point: I said a long while back that anyone who votes NO should also provide reasoning...that is , for every NO vote there should be the same # of explanations in the approprate thread. The point is not to single out NO voters, but that the GMs involved in the trade understand the rationale of the NO voters, and can then take this under consideration when (if) the trade requires re-working. Trade voting is subjective and each and every voter grades trades differently when we're looking for that line being crossed where you justify voting NO. My thoughts are that this would avoid the negative talks we have just witnessed...It would hopefully avoid someone from "strategically" voting NO if they had a vested interest in the said trade. Peace out...
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Post by RangersRon on Nov 22, 2008 19:47:29 GMT -5
The league has spoken, I was waiting to chime in on this until the trade vote was over, didn't want to add fuel to the fire. Why did opinions on trades all of a sudden turn into personal attacks and wrongful allegations. I contacted five teams before I put Alfie on the block because they inquired about him in the past, so they got first crack. I sent out four trade offers (to those five teams) and they all said no. I was asking too much for him or he was too expensive for there team. After I put him on the block, one team contacted me for his services and I declined that offer (sorry PENS my bad, I didn't let you know that until now) I had more offers for my 2nd overall than I did for Alfie. So in my opinion on that trade, it was the best one I received. I thought the prospects and young players AVS offered was better than the ones Montreal offered, end of story it's just that simple. Montreal said he wasn't interested if that was the cost and if I had deals elsewhere then go (I still have the PM) It's a hunch, a shot in the dark, I see potential in those players. Plus I'm counting on my first round pick to play as well next year. Maybe I should have gotten more or gave up a little less, that's why theres an opinions on trades thread not opinions on GM thread It almost seems like a witch hunt here (Philly was around in those days ) the teams that are complaining the most about me and my dedication to the league are the same teams that wanted something from me that I won't give up. No not that you deviants, if the league wants to vote me out than lets start a thread for it. I don't want to leave, contrary to "popular" belief I love this SIM hockey, it makes me watch the NHL a little closer, but I won't tolerate my integrity or honestly being questioned here...at all!!! Here! Here! Mike ! Well said pal! Well said!!!!!
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