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Top 10
May 14, 2019 10:05:15 GMT -5
Post by LeafsGM on May 14, 2019 10:05:15 GMT -5
So I work with a big Leafs homer, which I try to avoid being myself. His argument was Auston Matthews is a top 3 overall player in the NHL and that he wouldn't trade him for anyone other than McJesus. So I started naming him all the players (F/D) that I would trade Matthews for, and it sparked a thought about my personal top 10 list (all factors involved, think dynasty redraft). Keeping goalies out as they can get fickle. Here it is, feel free to share yours if you'd like:
1) McDavid 2) MacKinnon 3) Barkov 4) Seth Jones 5) Rantanen 6) Marner 7) Kucherov 8) Scheiffele 9) Draisaitl 10) Matthews
Heavy bias here obviously, but I guess 1-9 are names I'd trade Matthews for in real life. Aimed at keeping it under 30 years old, so obviously Ovi/Sid/Bergeron and such would not be included.
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Top 10
May 14, 2019 11:19:57 GMT -5
Post by Hawks on May 14, 2019 11:19:57 GMT -5
Am I reading #10 correctly? You'd trade him for himself? lol
I agree with McDavid and MacKinnon, but beyond those two, under 30, I don't think I'd move him for anyone else on your list. Seth Jones least of all.
If I had to pick a D-man to swap with Matthews, I'd probably pick Dahlin or Klingberg or some other very skilled offensive d-man
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Top 10
May 14, 2019 11:40:26 GMT -5
Post by LeafsGM on May 14, 2019 11:40:26 GMT -5
Totally forgot Dahlin, he should be on the list for sure. Very high on Jones, think he hit another level this year and what i saw in the playoffs.
Also this isn't me taking stabs at Matthews, just that I've watched enough of him at this point to see the good and the bad. For example I'd move him in a heartbeat for Barkov or Jones, because the impact of either of those guys would be much greater than a relatively one way goal scoring center.
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Top 10
May 14, 2019 14:19:28 GMT -5
Post by MontyBurns on May 14, 2019 14:19:28 GMT -5
So I work with a big Leafs homer, which I try to avoid being myself. His argument was Auston Matthews is a top 3 overall player in the NHL and that he wouldn't trade him for anyone other than McJesus. So I started naming him all the players (F/D) that I would trade Matthews for, and it sparked a thought about my personal top 10 list (all factors involved, think dynasty redraft). Keeping goalies out as they can get fickle. Here it is, feel free to share yours if you'd like: 1) McDavid 2) MacKinnon 3) Barkov 4) Seth Jones 5) Rantanen 6) Marner 7) Kucherov 8) Scheiffele 9) Draisaitl 10) Matthews Heavy bias here obviously, but I guess 1-9 are names I'd trade Matthews for in real life. Aimed at keeping it under 30 years old, so obviously Ovi/Sid/Bergeron and such would not be included. For me, Rantanen, Sheirffle and Drai dont belong on that list. Marner and him are about equal, as Matthews is a C and Marner had better production this year. If marner does it again, again it will cement him above matthews. Dahlin could be on there and Hedman too. I get the Seth Jones argument, and really like him, so tough to argue. There are some guys around the same level too... What about Pasternak, point, aho, monahan? Matthews can easily separate again this year simply by having a healthy season and producing as he has in the past, but injuries and a lack of team success are holding back his stock.
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Post by RedWings_Mike on May 14, 2019 16:27:45 GMT -5
If we are talking about defensemen to add to the list, under 30, Heiskanen deserves a look. That dude already logging number 1 dman minutes!!
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Post by LeafsGM on May 14, 2019 18:58:35 GMT -5
For me, Rantanen, Sheirffle and Drai dont belong on that list. Rantanen to me is upper echelon, putting up two monster seasons, great playoffs numbers too. Draisaitl is an incredible player that unfortunately plays with trash players when he's not with McDavid, and still put up 105 points. I think both and Scheiffele are top 10 based on skill, production, age, size, speed, and strength.
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Post by RedWings_Mike on May 14, 2019 20:37:00 GMT -5
For me, Rantanen, Sheirffle and Drai dont belong on that list. Rantanen to me is upper echelon, putting up two monster seasons, great playoffs numbers too. Draisaitl is an incredible player that unfortunately plays with trash players when he's not with McDavid, and still put up 105 points. I think both and Scheiffele are top 10 based on skill, production, age, size, speed, and strength. Earlier this season I was trying to preach that Draisaitl was the truth and nobody was having it. Then my dude puts up 100 points. Makes my loins tingle.
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Top 10
May 15, 2019 10:50:54 GMT -5
Post by Calgary GM- Scott on May 15, 2019 10:50:54 GMT -5
Matthews is certainly not a top 3 player in the league today and I would say he is borderline top 20. I think you could argue he is currently the 4th best player on his team- Marner, Tavares and Rielly.
In terms of going forward who would you trade for he gets a huge bump based on his potential but even then I don't think he is top 3.
I would say for guys you would or wouldn't trade for:
No doubt better and would trade Matthews for in a heartbeat:
McDavid MacKinnon Kucherov Barkov
To me those 4 are no brainers no arguments
Now for others that I would say would be debatable:
Point (Size, numbers repeatable?) Marner (size, position) Drasaitl Rantanen Schieffle Dahlin Gaudreau (age, size, position) Barzal Hubreadeau
And then some others that if Matthews doesn't show more and they repeat big seasons/develop could come into play:
Aho Monahan Hughes DeBrincat
The Matthews is a top 5 player/center argument from TO homers is really laughable. I heard a lot less of it when the season went along but as of now it is primarily based on potential than actually play and he is getting to the point where potential means a lot less.
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Post by MontyBurns on May 15, 2019 13:43:47 GMT -5
As a leafs fan and Matthew's JGHL manager, I agree he isnt even close to a top 5 player.
He is arguably a top 5 dynasty player, but as the lists show, its arguable.
Hes a really good goalscoring centre with a ton of untapped potential and some injury issues.
He COULD be a top 5 player in 5 years, but then again, so could a lot of guys.
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Top 10
May 15, 2019 13:56:39 GMT -5
Post by Hawks on May 15, 2019 13:56:39 GMT -5
...wait what? Matthews isn't a top 5 player? Maybe not even top 20?!
Dude has been in the league for 3 years....69pts, 63pts, 73pts, with 30+ goals in each. (40, 34, 37)....and he didn't even play the full year in the last 2 seasons, missing about 10-15 games each year.
Those are crazy good numbers...and he would have still been the 1st line C on Toronto if JT didn't sign as well.
I'll be happy to take him off your hands, lol.
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Post by RedWings_Mike on May 15, 2019 14:06:51 GMT -5
Kucherov at 3 is overrated, he isn't even top 10, just a product of a very good Lightning team this year. (and he's not a playoff performer)
Matthews might not be top 5 right now, but he defintely could be top 5 very soon. Mackinnon didn't hit his stride until last year, so Matthews could just go off next year, he is still so young.
Scheifele is a good call out, dude is so underrated that a lot of people still don't even know how to spell his name...( I googled it just to make sure I spelled it right...)
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Top 10
May 15, 2019 17:12:19 GMT -5
Post by Calgary GM- Scott on May 15, 2019 17:12:19 GMT -5
...wait what? Matthews isn't a top 5 player? Maybe not even top 20?! Dude has been in the league for 3 years....69pts, 63pts, 73pts, with 30+ goals in each. (40, 34, 37)....and he didn't even play the full year in the last 2 seasons, missing about 10-15 games each year. Those are crazy good numbers...and he would have still been the 1st line C on Toronto if JT didn't sign as well. I'll be happy to take him off your hands, lol. Not even close to top 5. 1. McDavid 2. Crosby 3. Bergeron 4. Kucherov 5. MacKinnon Those guys are all no doubt better than him. Not close, no argument can be made. I would say that right now: Malkin, Kane, Tavares, Marner, Marchand, Barkov, Wheeler, Gaudreau are all clearly better than him as well which takes it to 12. Then there are guys like Rantanen, Point, Draisaitl, Schieffle, Stamkos, Barzal, Hall, Giroux that would all have a claim to be better than him as well so that's 20 and there are guys I am likely missing and didn't include defensemen or goalies. I would say at least Burns and Hedman, probably Doughty, Karlsson and Giordano would have an argument for being better.
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Top 10
May 15, 2019 17:14:13 GMT -5
Post by Calgary GM- Scott on May 15, 2019 17:14:13 GMT -5
Kucherov at 3 is overrated, he isn't even top 10, just a product of a very good Lightning team this year. (and he's not a playoff performer) Matthews might not be top 5 right now, but he defintely could be top 5 very soon. Mackinnon didn't hit his stride until last year, so Matthews could just go off next year, he is still so young. Scheifele is a good call out, dude is so underrated that a lot of people still don't even know how to spell his name...( I googled it just to make sure I spelled it right...) Kucherov just lead the league in scoring by 12 points and has the most points combined over the last two years. If he is the product of the Tampa teams how come none of those guys are close to his numbers?
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Top 10
May 15, 2019 19:52:16 GMT -5
Post by RedWings_Mike on May 15, 2019 19:52:16 GMT -5
Kucherov at 3 is overrated, he isn't even top 10, just a product of a very good Lightning team this year. (and he's not a playoff performer) Matthews might not be top 5 right now, but he defintely could be top 5 very soon. Mackinnon didn't hit his stride until last year, so Matthews could just go off next year, he is still so young. Scheifele is a good call out, dude is so underrated that a lot of people still don't even know how to spell his name...( I googled it just to make sure I spelled it right...) Kucherov just lead the league in scoring by 12 points and has the most points combined over the last two years. If he is the product of the Tampa teams how come none of those guys are close to his numbers? He had a good regular season in terms of numbers, but overall game including him defensively, how he helps out in the 2 way game, and not to mention he's a winger which isn't as valuable as a centerman, makes him outside of the top 10.
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Top 10
May 16, 2019 10:50:52 GMT -5
Post by Hawks on May 16, 2019 10:50:52 GMT -5
...wait what? Matthews isn't a top 5 player? Maybe not even top 20?! Dude has been in the league for 3 years....69pts, 63pts, 73pts, with 30+ goals in each. (40, 34, 37)....and he didn't even play the full year in the last 2 seasons, missing about 10-15 games each year. Those are crazy good numbers...and he would have still been the 1st line C on Toronto if JT didn't sign as well. I'll be happy to take him off your hands, lol. Not even close to top 5. 1. McDavid 2. Crosby 3. Bergeron 4. Kucherov 5. MacKinnon It was players under 30...so Crosby is out of the discussion. Bergeron? A guy who has never scored 40 goals in his life...is better than a kid who did it his rookie season...he's better than a kid who scored more points in less games as well. OOOOOOOOK. Whatever you say bud.
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