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Post by Sharky on Apr 13, 2021 20:31:56 GMT -5
If Yzerman is the MAN, then Fletcher is the class clown... The Flyers have been playing like crap most of the season, and he hasn't done anything to try and shake things up. But then again, he did not have that great of a record when he was in Minnesota. AV is no better; of all the games I have watched, he does not appear to be able to motivate the players, or even figure out why they suck so much. I REFUSE TO believe that all of this poor play is because Niskanen retired. He is NOT and was NOT the best Dman that ever lived... At this point, I can't wait for the season to be over, and I HOPE TO GOD that this crappy season has not hurt Carter Hart's confidence for the rest of his career. What’s the story with Giroux and Voracek? Pulling a Flames/ Feaster and keeping them until they have no more value?
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Post by WHALERS_GM_AL on Apr 13, 2021 20:49:38 GMT -5
What’s the story with Giroux and Voracek? Pulling a Flames/ Feaster and keeping them until they have no more value? Well, for Giroux he has a No Move Clause, so I think he gets to decide if he moves or not. But I also think that G loves it in Philly. As for Voracek, I would say it is his contract, it has an 8.5 mil AAV, so hard to move in season, let alone when there is a Flat Cap. I would suspect that Voracek gets moved in the offseason, or gets left unprotected for the expansion draft. I must admit, that if Snider was still alive, things would have been shaken for or five times already, starting with the GM and coaching staff. Ever since they fired Hextall, the team has not been the same. And his downfall was not wanting to fire Hackstol. Mind you, they haven't been the same Flyers since the 2010 cup finals. They are not physical, they don't hit and get manhandled on a game-to-game basis. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens in the offseason.
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Post by WHALERS_GM_AL on Apr 13, 2021 21:17:34 GMT -5
Here is another problem with the Flyers this season...
THE COACH
Av is a good coach, and his record shows it.
I was just watching the post-game and for the 23rd (all loses) time this season, he has come out and said that he can't figure it out, does not know why the team is so bad, why they don't compete.
How is it possible that an NHL Coach does not know how to get his team going 42 games into the season? The excuse of "it is because of Covid" or "this is not a regular season" and so on, only work for a little while, but when you see other teams being able to adapt, and the coach being able to get them going then you know something is no longer working in that dressing room.
And when you watch the players' interviews, you can tell that AV has lost them.
Case in point, the 9-0 lost to the Rangers followed by the 8-3 lost a few days later. This would not have happened with any other coaches. For example, when Dallas thrashed Nashville 7-0, they at least showed up for the next game and made the game tighter. The Flyers have not done that for the majority of the season, and have been outscored way too much.
Could coaching be one of the major changes coming in the offseason?
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Apr 13, 2021 21:52:03 GMT -5
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Apr 13, 2021 21:53:43 GMT -5
these tweeter peeps echoing Al's thoughts...
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Post by Calgary GM- Scott on Apr 13, 2021 23:32:43 GMT -5
I really like Mantha and wanted him in Calgary, prior to us collapsing and now needing a complete rebuild, but that is a great return for Detroit. I used to think Calgary just needed to stick to their guns and be patient, but ya now I'm definitely leaning to complete rebuild. I'm not sure how a team can fluke their way to a 2nd overall finish a few years ago, but that season is looking like the outlier season now (the 15th-25th overall seasons are looking more like the norm). I still like Treliving as GM though. His drafting and trades for the most part have been quite good, and I think he finally had a decent free agency with Tanev and Markstrom. Overall I'd trust him to manage the rebuild. I think they should have looked to make moves two years ago. Now I am worried that we will only be headed towards years of mediocrity. I think the rebuild is needed but not sure how they do it. My fear is that they will do it half-assed move on from Gaudreau and Monahan but get very little in return and keep on being 1st round fodder. What they should do is move at least 3, if not all 4, of Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and Lindholm. Plus move Gio and Markstrom. I just don't see how we get bad enough if we keep too many guys and don't see how we get the players we need if we only move a few guys. I really think we will try to do a retool and it won't work at all.
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Post by WHALERS_GM_AL on Apr 14, 2021 0:02:08 GMT -5
I used to think Calgary just needed to stick to their guns and be patient, but ya now I'm definitely leaning to complete rebuild. I'm not sure how a team can fluke their way to a 2nd overall finish a few years ago, but that season is looking like the outlier season now (the 15th-25th overall seasons are looking more like the norm). I still like Treliving as GM though. His drafting and trades for the most part have been quite good, and I think he finally had a decent free agency with Tanev and Markstrom. Overall I'd trust him to manage the rebuild. I think they should have looked to make moves two years ago. Now I am worried that we will only be headed towards years of mediocrity. I think the rebuild is needed but not sure how they do it. My fear is that they will do it half-assed move on from Gaudreau and Monahan but get very little in return and keep on being 1st round fodder. What they should do is move at least 3, if not all 4, of Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and Lindholm. Plus move Gio and Markstrom. I just don't see how we get bad enough if we keep too many guys and don't see how we get the players we need if we only move a few guys. I really think we will try to do a retool and it won't work at all. I think that if Calgary moves Markstrom, then Tanev will ask to be moved with him. But seriously though, I think that they should move Gaudreau for sure, it is abundantly clear that he wants to be moved, and to the east coast preferably. He would love Philly, and maybe Jersey. But the problem there is that they would need to take a contract back, and I'm not sure that Voracek or JVR would be wanted. They should keep Monahan, and get better players to play around him, they could also get a #1 center, and move Monahan to the second lines, which would take some pressure off of him. They could/should keep Tkachuk, just need him to play more like a little pest, and take fewer stupid penalties. He is still young, and if he can learn to avoid the bad/stupid penalties, it will only help the team. They should try and get a better backup to Markstrom, someone similar to what Demko did for Vancouver last year. I noticed that Markstrom seems to play a lot better when the backup plays just as good as he does. If he does not have that, then he's just ok. Almost feels like if he knows he cannot lose the #1 G job, then he does not put in 100% effort, but if there is a chance he might lose it, then he can be lights out. But yes, this season has been a bad one for the Flames, but the good thing for you fans is that it hasn't been as bad as the Flyers.
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Post by Sharky on Apr 14, 2021 21:05:59 GMT -5
I used to think Calgary just needed to stick to their guns and be patient, but ya now I'm definitely leaning to complete rebuild. I'm not sure how a team can fluke their way to a 2nd overall finish a few years ago, but that season is looking like the outlier season now (the 15th-25th overall seasons are looking more like the norm). I still like Treliving as GM though. His drafting and trades for the most part have been quite good, and I think he finally had a decent free agency with Tanev and Markstrom. Overall I'd trust him to manage the rebuild. I think they should have looked to make moves two years ago. Now I am worried that we will only be headed towards years of mediocrity. I think the rebuild is needed but not sure how they do it. My fear is that they will do it half-assed move on from Gaudreau and Monahan but get very little in return and keep on being 1st round fodder. What they should do is move at least 3, if not all 4, of Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and Lindholm. Plus move Gio and Markstrom. I just don't see how we get bad enough if we keep too many guys and don't see how we get the players we need if we only move a few guys. I really think we will try to do a retool and it won't work at all. I don’t think they need to take that drastic of action, but I do think Treliving has proven he gets good returns on trades. I have faith Treliving would do well for the Flames. I think you have to keep Tkachuk and Lindholm. Tkachuk especially. I would move Monahan for sure, and Gaudreau as I have a feeling he’ll want to move on.
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Post by WHALERS_GM_AL on Apr 14, 2021 21:42:21 GMT -5
Gaudreau said it before he signed his last contract, that he would love to place elsewhere, and he even said that Philly would be great.
He should have been moved then, but at that point, the timing was bad for the GM. Maybe now would be a better time, but with his numbers being lower, could that have diminished his value?
No matter what, I have faith in Treliving more than I do Fletcher... Anyone what to trade GMs? Philly is looking to trade theirs...
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Post by Calgary GM- Scott on Apr 15, 2021 13:54:44 GMT -5
Oh great now the Flames are doing their patented win when you are out of it so your pick goes from top 5 to 15th. At least they were bad enough at the deadline we got a few picks out it.
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Post by Calgary GM- Scott on Apr 15, 2021 13:56:16 GMT -5
I think you have to keep Tkachuk and Lindholm. Tkachuk especially. I would move Monahan for sure, and Gaudreau as I have a feeling he’ll want to move on. My concern with keeping too many good players is that then we start drafting 5-10 instead of 1-5 and the chances of us getting an elite player is much less. Really what I want is a top 3 pick in 2023 so we can get one of Bedard, Wright or if we have to the Russian kid.
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Apr 15, 2021 14:12:16 GMT -5
I think you have to keep Tkachuk and Lindholm. Tkachuk especially. I would move Monahan for sure, and Gaudreau as I have a feeling he’ll want to move on. My concern with keeping too many good players is that then we start drafting 5-10 instead of 1-5 and the chances of us getting an elite player is much less. Really what I want is a top 3 pick in 2023 so we can get one of Bedard, Wright or if we have to the Russian kid. Reading My mind Scott. Sadly don't think it will happen. Doomed to draft 15th overall or thereabouts for the rest of my days... Lol
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Post by Sharky on Apr 15, 2021 14:23:55 GMT -5
The Oilers have shown you need more than one elite player (3/6 years in the playoffs with McDavid and out of the first round once)... I just can’t get behind tanking. Especially for guys that are presumably a far cry from McDavid. You need “support” like Tkachuk, Lindholm, Gaudreau, Monahan et al. I’m not saying you don’t sell some of them, only that you shouldn’t sell them all for a shot at a top 3 pick.
Look at the top 5 picks for the last several years. Not all of them are slam dunks... I’d estimate half of them are at least not game breakers. Buffalo has shown you need more than Eichel, in 2016 the only guy I would choose over Tkachuk is Mathews, in 2017 none of the top 5 are guys that are worth tanking for IMO, and it’s probably too early to judge 2018-2020 much but so far it’s the same story.
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Post by Calgary GM- Scott on Apr 15, 2021 18:54:07 GMT -5
The Oilers have shown you need more than one elite player (3/6 years in the playoffs with McDavid and out of the first round once)... I just can’t get behind tanking. Especially for guys that are presumably a far cry from McDavid. You need “support” like Tkachuk, Lindholm, Gaudreau, Monahan et al. I’m not saying you don’t sell some of them, only that you shouldn’t sell them all for a shot at a top 3 pick. Look at the top 5 picks for the last several years. Not all of them are slam dunks... I’d estimate half of them are at least not game breakers. Buffalo has shown you need more than Eichel, in 2016 the only guy I would choose over Tkachuk is Mathews, in 2017 none of the top 5 are guys that are worth tanking for IMO, and it’s probably too early to judge 2018-2020 much but so far it’s the same story. I agree you still need a good organization but for the Oilers example imagine if instead of McDavid they had Pavel Zacha and instead of Draisatl they had Hayden Fleury. That is my fear about dropping out of the running for Bedard/Wright and getting the 6th/7.th pick instead.
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Post by LeafsGM on Apr 15, 2021 19:08:26 GMT -5
Can't help but think how much the pandemic has affected the 2018-20 classes. Just skimming through them, not a lot of NHLers outside the lotteries. 2018 I think was just a rough class overall. The last few are such works in progress.
2020 class is a weird one. We obviously have much better hindsight vision so it'll be interesting to see how our top 10 goes. Can see Lafreniere slipping to 3 easily. Not necessarily saying he should, but I can see it.
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