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Post by MontyBurns on Jul 9, 2008 15:57:32 GMT -5
i think we are in an interesting situation here, becuase this isnt that far off from the afiniganov deal (which i abstained on), in that you trade a bit of pts for youth...basically i think it comes down to the fact that teams simply do not understand the value of 1st round picks... Its funny, becuase they can turn out to be worthless, sure, but without them teams actually can do anything (see leafs over the past 15 years)... and im not even suggesting that pics are the be all and end all of fantasy hockey, they are not money trees, but people have to realize that a 25 year old 20 goal scorer today is not a 25 year old goal scorer 10 years ago...
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Post by Hawks on Jul 9, 2008 16:03:13 GMT -5
umm yea carolina/calgary deal.. is that a joke or what? 5 draft picks for an overrated power forward? 2 1sts? and then you guys ask why calgarys got the whole league by the balls LOL That was my first reaction too. 2 1sts+ is absolutely insane. I just don't understand why everyone: #1: Trade away all their first round picks, unless you make a horrible choice, a 1st rounder usually makes it into the NHL and usually is pretty darn good player. Probably a player just as good as Penner. #2: Trades them all to Calgary. This trade would give him FIVE 1st round picks this year, FIVE.
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Jul 9, 2008 16:32:49 GMT -5
Just to shed some light on drafted prospects & how many actually make it to the big show...see the following link: proicehockey.about.com/od/prospects/f/draft_success.htmIf I didn't have the depth at forward already, I probably wouldn't make this deal. Penner is still likely to be on Oilers' 1st line in NHL next season & still hasn't reached his full potential...he has good contract as well... I think Canes GM track record in this league should speak for itself, but of course everyone entitled to their opinion for sure, so let 'er rip...lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2008 16:38:20 GMT -5
I too must agree that this deal is absurd... four draft picks, with two of them being first rounders.. I know the value of first rounders in this league arent much, but jeez.. its become the fact that any pick after the first is become i guess useless?? I dont know.. I would put Penners value at ONE first.. maybe even a second.. but I guess I'm nuts in that case then.. but this is just wayy too much for Penner. And its not even the liklihood of a first rounder makking it to the NHL.. the fact is, a first rounder is a first rounder.. You are guaranteed a chance at getting a quality player. Now if you cant draft,or dont care to draft.. then thats your problem, but giving away picks? I dont know..
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Post by Hawks on Jul 9, 2008 17:47:37 GMT -5
Just to shed some light on drafted prospects & how many actually make it to the big show...see the following link: proicehockey.about.com/od/prospects/f/draft_success.htmIf I didn't have the depth at forward already, I probably wouldn't make this deal. Penner is still likely to be on Oilers' 1st line in NHL next season & still hasn't reached his full potential...he has good contract as well... I think Canes GM track record in this league should speak for itself, but of course everyone entitled to their opinion for sure, so let 'er rip...lol From your link: Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player. I believe this is the point me, florida, and leafs are making You make your own destiny when it comes to your draft picks. Last year I had the 26th pick in Repik, before I decided to go into full swing rebuilding, several people were asking for him. Its not when you pick, its who you pick, a little home-work goes a long way.
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Post by LeafsGM on Jul 9, 2008 17:57:13 GMT -5
Just to shed some light on drafted prospects & how many actually make it to the big show...see the following link: proicehockey.about.com/od/prospects/f/draft_success.htmIf I didn't have the depth at forward already, I probably wouldn't make this deal. Penner is still likely to be on Oilers' 1st line in NHL next season & still hasn't reached his full potential...he has good contract as well... I think Canes GM track record in this league should speak for itself, but of course everyone entitled to their opinion for sure, so let 'er rip...lol how bout we shed some light on how many studs youve drafted with all of these "hit or miss" 1st rounders flames bottom line is, beside the fact that penner is NOT worth even 2 1sts alone, forget an added 3 other picks (good god, i just realized even more just how ridiculous this deal is), penner is what 20th on your depth chart??? now thats awesome for you and were just all half jealous, but i simply think this league is not gonna work if you own half of every 1st round for the next 10 years. plus you could do these kind of deals forever cause you have 10 penners that you can trade for all the 1st rounders being offered. i know we dug our own grave here and even i admit to trading away 1sts like they were rentals back in the day, but guys, we need to establish some sort of parity here, and feeding a knowledgeable gm with all the 1st rounders in the league will not establish it. i also think people lose sight of the fact that any of these 1sts can potentially become a top 3 pick, which is almost always a top line talent. safe to say that im rattled, and a little tired of seeing calgarys allstar stable of prospects get bigger and bigger by year because of deals like these.
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Jul 9, 2008 19:45:39 GMT -5
Hey Eug - it's actually 4 draft picks for Penner - just to clarify...and 2 of those are 4th & 5th rnders - long shots to make NHL or JGHL to say the least...
And for the two 1st rnders - 1 of which is 2 yrs from now - in which case if the guy does ever make JGHL, it'll be likely 2013 or beyond. Add to the fact Carolina has a solid team yr in & yr out (esp with Luongo in goal) and those 1st rnders arn't exactly going to be close to top 3 picks...this yr's in fact is 18th overall, although I do admit this yr is definitely a good draft yr as terms of depth in the 1st round. If this was a top 10 pick, this deal definitely wouldn't have had 1st rnders included without me adding something...
Plus: I haven't just done a deal with a rookie GM here...Kevin is a former GM of the yr and look at his team's home page for god's sake - many accolades including Cup winner in '04-05...give him some credit here!
I see what you guys are trying to say on keeping trades as fair as possible, and I do agree that lop-sided trades have no place here. I don't even mind reworking trades to get them passed on occassion (and I should no more than most GMs!), but keep the focus where it needs to be & don't overrate the components involved in this trade...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2008 20:05:47 GMT -5
It's Calgary! He has this magic mind control over GMs here I think. Hell that's waaaaaaay more than anyone in this league offered me for Stamkos! Now I ask you, if you had the choice between Stamkos or Penner, who would you choose? This is probably how the conversation went..... Carolina: I'm interested in Penner Calgary: Ok, I would like some draft picks back Carolina: Ok, how about a 1st and I'll throw in another pick Calgary: Sounds good, but you should really give me two 1st round picks, and throw in a few more picks on top of that Carolina: Good point, I never really thought about it like that.....deal!
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Post by LeafsGM on Jul 10, 2008 1:51:59 GMT -5
classic
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Post by AvsGM on Jul 10, 2008 9:45:12 GMT -5
Carolina: I'm interested in Penner Calgary: Ok, I would like some draft picks back Carolina: Ok, how about a 1st and I'll throw in another pick Calgary: Sounds good, but you should really give me two 1st round picks, and throw in a few more picks on top of that Carolina: Good point, I never really thought about it like that.....deal! lol, brilliant!
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Jul 10, 2008 10:57:12 GMT -5
lol...yes my Jedi Mind Tricks are more powerful than ever!
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Post by RangersRon on Jul 10, 2008 15:10:49 GMT -5
It is those virtual pills that are going around here that some person mixes in his lab..who could that be OB1
I think the resend is better deal and Carolina has won Cup and been GM of year and should be given credit for that and if Chris has the personel to trade for picks well it is what it is. He built it by not making playoffs for first year or two or even three and now he has the power and personel to continue.
People who have been around have right to trade whatever they want, within reason and you cannot like a trade because a guy has too many first rounders. Do what he did, give up making playoffs for few years and built with youth.........Do it!
Also it is not like Carlina is trading for old fukers, he gets a 25 year old with 50 points and 29 yr old dman, who both can help now and can get better in future.....possibly but who really knows!
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Post by Philly on Jul 10, 2008 16:15:37 GMT -5
It is those virtual pills that are going around here that some person mixes in his lab..who could that be OB1 I think the resend is better deal and Carolina has won Cup and been GM of year and should be given credit for that and if Chris has the personel to trade for picks well it is what it is. He built it by not making playoffs for first year or two or even three and now he has the power and personel to continue. People who have been around have right to trade whatever they want, within reason and you cannot like a trade because a guy has too many first rounders. Do what he did, give up making playoffs for few years and built with youth.........Do it! Also it is not like Carlina is trading for old fukers, he gets a 25 year old with 50 points and 29 yr old dman, who both can help now and can get better in future.....possibly but who really knows! Well said Ron, the redo seems acceptable to me, no need to punish good GM'S for being good GM'S
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 22:58:27 GMT -5
I have seen some crazy deals get passed here and even for the deals this season this doesn't seem to bad.
I like first round picks but the 18th pick this is year is at best a contributer 3 years from now and most likely nothing at all for 5 years.
To me it seems like Carolina is going to have a decent team next year so again that pick is not all that great either.
I am not sure 4th's and 5th are really worth more than a hill of beans so the deal doesn't look all that out of whack to me.
Honestly seeing what picks have gone for and what I have been offered for my picks I don't see why now people are going crazy about Calgary getting picks.
Perhaps it is just me but in some talks I have had it seems that first round picks are often looked at as garbage.
I don't see Calgary's team getting any stronger with this trade so I say let it go. If the Nash deal got approved with little opposition I can't see the problem with this. That deal is 1,000,000,000,000x more unfair than this one.
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Post by Hawks on Jul 11, 2008 0:10:50 GMT -5
1st's should never be looked at as garbage. If someone sees them as garbage, they either don't care about their team or don't intend to stay very long. (NOT implying anything to Carolina)
As Calgary posted, 63% of all 1st round picks become career players. Career players meaning 20+ goal scorers, 1st and 2nd liners on winning teams, 63% of them that won't have to wait 3 years after they are drafted. Those are good odds.
Calgary, Mr. 1st round picks, is the ultimate example of this.
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