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Post by Philly on Jul 11, 2008 6:57:48 GMT -5
I don't care if it's a 1st or a 5th rd. pick, all picks are a gamble. There are many 1st. RD picks in the NHL, who never make it beyond the farm, and there are 5th rd picks who become stars. Cherpanov is a 1st, but has decided to play for the Russian elite league, as have other Russians, who are becoming draft gambles and not worth much to the teams who drafted them. Carolina's 1st rd picks are very low, and the 1st in 2010 is a real longshot to see any ice time in the bigs for 3-4 years. Let's not put too much value on 1sts out of the top five, even some of those turn out to be a bust. In order to bid or win an RFA in the FA bidding wars, one has to have and be willing to give up 2 1st rd. picks- seems to me they are more valuable to trade for some reason , then they are during FA
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Post by RangersRon on Jul 11, 2008 9:57:30 GMT -5
I think the worse trade offer was when the the owner of the the toy store in one of the Little Rascals episodes on TV, offered that doll for that dog, Petey. That was the ulitimate bad offer and could have went down as the worse trade ever....Petey was cool dog! Smarter heads prevailed byt the Little rascals..... LOLOLOL Oh shit there is only one person on here that will remember that and I think I was a kid when the very first episode aired LOL No mention and Pennsylvania team GM's name here...... ;D
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Post by Philly on Jul 11, 2008 10:17:11 GMT -5
I think the worse trade offer was when the the owner of the the toy store in one of the Little Rascals episodes on TV, offered that doll for that dog, Petey. That was the ulitimate bad offer and could have went down as the worse trade ever....Petey was cool dog! Smarter heads prevailed byt the Little rascals..... LOLOLOL Oh shit there is only one person on here that will remember that and I think I was a kid when the very first episode aired No mention and Pennsylvania team GM's name here...... ;D LOL
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Post by CanesGM on Jul 11, 2008 10:23:31 GMT -5
I think the worse trade offer was when the the owner of the the toy store in one of the Little Rascals episodes on TV, offered that doll for that dog, Petey. That was the ulitimate bad offer and could have went down as the worse trade ever....Petey was cool dog! Smarter heads prevailed byt the Little rascals..... LOLOLOL Oh shit there is only one person on here that will remember that and I think I was a kid when the very first episode aired LOL No mention and Pennsylvania team GM's name here...... ;D CLASSIC Petey was da bomb!!!!!
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Post by LeafsGM on Jul 11, 2008 16:16:02 GMT -5
I don't care if it's a 1st or a 5th rd. pick, all picks are a gamble. There are many 1st. RD picks in the NHL, who never make it beyond the farm, and there are 5th rd picks who become stars. Cherpanov is a 1st, but has decided to play for the Russian elite league, as have other Russians, who are becoming draft gambles and not worth much to the teams who drafted them. Carolina's 1st rd picks are very low, and the 1st in 2010 is a real longshot to see any ice time in the bigs for 3-4 years. Let's not put too much value on 1sts out of the top five, even some of those turn out to be a bust. In order to bid or win an RFA in the FA bidding wars, one has to have and be willing to give up 2 1st rd. picks- seems to me they are more valuable to trade for some reason , then they are during FA you make some good points, except that this year's draft along with the next few are considered to be very deep in talent, so expect to see more nhlers coming out of the 1st round especially. even the so called "weak" draft of 2007 (last year) has already produced talent, with David Perron looking like a vet, drafted at what pick you ask? top 5? no. top 10? no. top 20??? 26th overall! and thats in a weak draft class!! so that should tell you something about the 18th overall pick this year and what a gm who does his homework can do with it (COUGH calgary COUGH). all im saying here is that with a little bit of homework and reading through some of the draft analyses out there, you can potentially draft an instant roster player with any early round pick. I drafted Stastny in the 2nd round and he turned out to be my franchise player. now granted that was a bit of a fluke, and i drafted more based on his name then his stats, but i cant stress this enough, and that's calgary is one of the best gms out there!!! he will turn copper into gold, and cream into butter! so whereas it seems youre not giving up THAT much with 2 late 1st rounders, to him they're most likely going to end up 2 roster players. now whether or not some of us are gonna take the time to draft a good player is a different story, but the value of the picks is indeed high in my opinion. ralph, this is by no means a personal attack on you, in fact its more praise then anything else, but dude, you own the future of the nhl because gms have year in year out undervalued their 1st rounders, and i just feel our league would benefit in the long run from a more even distribution of youth. cause as of right now i can name about 10 current and future franchise players on your team, and on other teams i can barely even name a 1st liner
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Post by RangersRon on Jul 11, 2008 16:44:30 GMT -5
I don't care if it's a 1st or a 5th rd. pick, all picks are a gamble. There are many 1st. RD picks in the NHL, who never make it beyond the farm, and there are 5th rd picks who become stars. Cherpanov is a 1st, but has decided to play for the Russian elite league, as have other Russians, who are becoming draft gambles and not worth much to the teams who drafted them. Carolina's 1st rd picks are very low, and the 1st in 2010 is a real longshot to see any ice time in the bigs for 3-4 years. Let's not put too much value on 1sts out of the top five, even some of those turn out to be a bust. In order to bid or win an RFA in the FA bidding wars, one has to have and be willing to give up 2 1st rd. picks- seems to me they are more valuable to trade for some reason , then they are during FA you make some good points, except that this year's draft along with the next few are considered to be very deep in talent, so expect to see more nhlers coming out of the 1st round especially. even the so called "weak" draft of 2007 (last year) has already produced talent, with David Perron looking like a vet, drafted at what pick you ask? top 5? no. top 10? no. top 20??? 26th overall! and thats in a weak draft class!! so that should tell you something about the 18th overall pick this year and what a gm who does his homework can do with it (COUGH calgary COUGH). all im saying here is that with a little bit of homework and reading through some of the draft analyses out there, you can potentially draft an instant roster player with any early round pick. I drafted Stastny in the 2nd round and he turned out to be my franchise player. now granted that was a bit of a fluke, and i drafted more based on his name then his stats, but i cant stress this enough, and that's calgary is one of the best gms out there!!! he will turn copper into gold, and cream into butter! so whereas it seems youre not giving up THAT much with 2 late 1st rounders, to him they're most likely going to end up 2 roster players. now whether or not some of us are gonna take the time to draft a good player is a different story, but the value of the picks is indeed high in my opinion. ralph, this is by no means a personal attack on you, in fact its more praise then anything else, but dude, you own the future of the nhl because gms have year in year out undervalued their 1st rounders, and i just feel our league would benefit in the long run from a more even distribution of youth. cause as of right now i can name about 10 current and future franchise players on your team, and on other teams i can barely even name a 1st liner But the one thing Chris did was built a team where he can trade talent for for more picks, he did this by getting beat up the first 3 seasons and now he is reward with an abundance of talent and you cannot blame him for maximizing his return for the talent he built by losing early at the beginning of this great league. i do agree that we all have to be wiser in trading away number 1S I for one am guilty, but if I know who the great 12 year old play was 5 years ago then I would have built for future picks. But again we have to be wiser with trading away #1s. I have guys always looking to get my 2009 #1 but this time I am going to keep it expecially since my team may suck LOL At least that what it is looking like from early results of new sim.....lollollloollol But I give Chris all the credit, but his drugs have not worked on me yet, but that may be from taking too many when I was much younger...
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Post by Sharky on Jul 11, 2008 17:44:19 GMT -5
With all due respect to Calgary, I disagree with that he built his team by aquiring other teams picks.
His first round picks: '04 # 2 Evgeni Malkin '04 # 15 Andrej Meszaros '05 # 3 Benoit Pouliot '05 # 17 Matt Lashoff '05 # 21 Jakub Kindl '06 # 7 Peter Mueller '06 # 11 Kyle Okposo '07 # 2 Kyle Turris '07 # 6 Jakub Voracek '07 # 25 Traded
Obviously those arn't bad players lol but he got Malkin because his team was not good in 2004. Meszaros was a nice addition through trade, but not a huge factor in his team right now. In 2005 he had three picks, none of the three have turned out yet. In 2006 and 2007 he had a lot of picks that look good, but none are having an effect on his team yet.
I guess my point is the reason Calgary is good right now is not because of his drafting, its mostly his trading. However, his drafting will keep him pretty good.
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Post by Nordiques - Chris on Jul 11, 2008 17:58:45 GMT -5
lol - I actually totally agree with you Jake...I was actually gonna post pretty much the same thing as you just did with respect to my drafting to show what a crap shoot it is & how long it takes players to develop to make any eaningful impact in the JGHL.
The link I posted about 63 % of 1st rnders making a meaningful impact in the NHL obviously didn't specifically point out that the top 10 picks would bump up that %age...The picks I'm getting in this deal are going to have an even lower chance than this. And even if they play a substantial amount of NHL games, who's to say they are actually impact fantasy hockey players...When I look at it, if i wasn't so deep with players & prospects I'm not so sure I would have even made this latest modified trade. Penner still likely to play 1st line with Oilers & Preissing still a good dman with even more upside than he showed last season in NHL. Just a yr ago he posted great #s for actually 2 yrs in a row.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2008 18:29:12 GMT -5
Holy crap man... it doesnt matter who drafts in the first round.. the bottom line is they are first round picks!! you can either be cliff fletcher or ken holland when it comes to the draft.. it doesnt matter.. what does matter is the level of the pick, and a first rounder is a first rounder.. how hard is this to understand?? dustin penner, was not worth 2 first rounders.. just take a look at the value of a first rounder that some teams pay.. and may i point out, that the value of a fisrt rounder in the OFFSEASON before the draft, is much more valuable than a first rounder on the trade deadline..
People.. it shouldnt matter whether its going to chris or not.. yes, he drafts exceptionally well.. but shoot man, a first rounder, IS a FIRST ROUNDER.. and some of the deals that have included first rounders in this league have sickeneed my stomach.. but whatever, if people are gonna start givin away first rounders like fried chicken.. then im gonna try to collect some too
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Post by RangersRon on Jul 13, 2008 13:37:47 GMT -5
I guess with vacation time it is tough to get votes!!!!! Since July 10th 24 GMs logged in, which 2 cannot vote, so what is there only 13 votes? ? Check trades guys everytime you login, so GMs can get their trades voted on one way or the other so they know where they stand!
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Post by CanesGM on Jul 13, 2008 21:17:17 GMT -5
update on vote please.... thanx
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Post by AvsGM on Jul 13, 2008 21:33:39 GMT -5
update on vote please.... thanx 7 pass, 8 reject
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Post by CanesGM on Jul 16, 2008 12:09:11 GMT -5
I have been quiet on this trade vote, just waiting to see what would happen. But I would like to speak my mind now. My opinion on the trade vote is that it is complete CRAP !!!!!! Rejecting the first trade I can understand. But the revised version? ? Come on guys, to me it is being reject on complete bias. It seems that some GMs just don't want Calgary to get more picks. If he has the assets to trade, so be it. I have been in this league since almost day 1 and have seen some bad trades get passed. I just think that this trade should be voted on by merit alone. Here a quick comparison to an earlier trade. Patrick Elias for a 1st, TJ Hensick and Michael Grabner Patrick Elias is 32 yrs old, has a $6 mil contract and will be a UFA. The past 2 yrs in the NHL he had 20g-55pts and 21g-69pts Hensick is 22 and he is projected a 2nd to 1st liner. Grabner is 20, a 1st rounder and projected to be a 1st liner. PASSED Dustin Penner and Tom Preissing for 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 4th. Penner is 26 yrs old, has $2.2 mil contract for 2 more yrs and will be a RFA. The past 2 yrs in the NHL he had 23g-47pts and 29g-46 pts. Preissing is 29 yrs old, has a $1.75 mil contract for 3 more yrs. The last 3 yrs in the NHL he had 24-38-43 points on defense. Last season on a terrible LA team. The first 1st rounder will be the 18th pick and the second 1st rounder should be in the back half of the draft (if my track record holds up). And then there a 2nd and 4th. Remember, this is a fantasy league, so unless you have a top 5 pick, the likelihood is other 1st rounders will not the NHL for a few seasons and that means 3-5 yrs away from making an JGHL pro roster (probably as a 3 or 4th liner by then to start). I feel that the 2nd trade should have been passed. I am not hurting my team by making this trade, only helping it. Someone said that Penner is over rated, your opinion. But again this is fantasy hockey and the only thing that matters is stats!!!! I am very disappointed in the GM's of this league who voted no. I do take this personally, because thats how you voted!!! I may not have the most "hockey smarts" in this league, but I have put together competitive teams every year in this league, never been questioned on any move.
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Post by RangersRon on Jul 16, 2008 12:25:00 GMT -5
I have been quiet on this trade vote, just waiting to see what would happen. But I would like to speak my mind now. My opinion on the trade vote is that it is complete CRAP !!!!!! Rejecting the first trade I can understand. But the revised version? ? Come on guys, to me it is being reject on complete bias. It seems that some GMs just don't want Calgary to get more picks. If he has the assets to trade, so be it. I have been in this league since almost day 1 and have seen some bad trades get passed. I just think that this trade should be voted on by merit alone. Here a quick comparison to an earlier trade. Patrick Elias for a 1st, TJ Hensick and Michael Grabner Patrick Elias is 32 yrs old, has a $6 mil contract and will be a UFA. The past 2 yrs in the NHL he had 20g-55pts and 21g-69pts Hensick is 22 and he is projected a 2nd to 1st liner. Grabner is 20, a 1st rounder and projected to be a 1st liner. PASSED Dustin Penner and Tom Preissing for 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 4th. Penner is 26 yrs old, has $2.2 mil contract for 2 more yrs and will be a RFA. The past 2 yrs in the NHL he had 23g-47pts and 29g-46 pts. Preissing is 29 yrs old, has a $1.75 mil contract for 3 more yrs. The last 3 yrs in the NHL he had 24-38-43 points on defense. Last season on a terrible LA team. The first 1st rounder will be the 18th pick and the second 1st rounder should be in the back half of the draft (if my track record holds up). And then there a 2nd and 4th. Remember, this is a fantasy league, so unless you have a top 5 pick, the likelihood is other 1st rounders will not the NHL for a few seasons and that means 3-5 yrs away from making an JGHL pro roster (probably as a 3 or 4th liner by then to start). I feel that the 2nd trade should have been passed. I am not hurting my team by making this trade, only helping it. Someone said that Penner is over rated, your opinion. But again this is fantasy hockey and the only thing that matters is stats!!!! I am very disappointed in the GM's of this league who voted no. I do take this personally, because thats how you voted!!! I may not have the most "hockey smarts" in this league, but I have put together competitive teams every year in this league, never been questioned on any move. You go Kevin! Give'em hell! Well deserved guys!
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Post by Hawks on Jul 16, 2008 14:49:07 GMT -5
While the trade increased in 1 player, it also increased in quality of draft pick, there-by half-way negating the extra player completely.
With that said, I did vote to pass, but I still don't see it as a very balanced trade.
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