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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 1:47:53 GMT -5
If he could do anything other than score and wasn't not only god awful in his own zone but lazy as well then perhaps he would be worth the first pick. Also not sure if a friend saying his buddy is a an underrated player on a third rate "journalists" column is a good indication of how good a player is or isn't. Especially when the whole point of said interviews are to artificially boost Russian losers up.
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Post by Sharky on Apr 17, 2009 3:26:35 GMT -5
I'm sure there are lots of people who would say a franchise player in Zach Bogosian is worth more than a defensively terrible Ryan Whitney and two decent prospects.
I'm just pointing out a double standard... Zach Bogosian was a top 5 pick, and you delt him, along with a very good Russian prospect, for a player that isn't as good as Frolov (Whitney) and two prospects. The best two players in the deal went to Toronto.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 19:09:22 GMT -5
I'm sure there are lots of people who would say a franchise player in Zach Bogosian is worth more than a defensively terrible Ryan Whitney and two decent prospects. I'm just pointing out a double standard... Zach Bogosian was a top 5 pick, and you delt him, along with a very good Russian prospect, for a player that isn't as good as Frolov (Whitney) and two prospects. The best two players in the deal went to Toronto. Seems pretty early to call a defensively terrible Bogosian a franchise player. Also not sure in what world Kulemin is better than Whitney or even how right now he could be looked at as much, if at all better than Hensick. For me Kulemin Hensick are basically a wash and I took a chance on the guy chosen 10th plus a proven 40+ point defensman over a guy chosen 3rd. Of course there are different opinions but 1. Whitney is better than Frolov 2. Tavares/Hedman much, much better than Bogosian.
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Post by Sharky on Apr 19, 2009 18:21:10 GMT -5
Why are we talking about Hedman or Tavares when LAs pick is projected to be 3rd overall? Some of you need to get this through your head... Detriots pick, LAs pick and New Yorks pick will not all be first overall. We've seen two trades of Detriots 1st for Frolov and LAs 1st for Frolov get complained about incessently because "Frolov is not worth Tavares". Both of those picks will not be Tavares.
And I definatly do not agree with Hedman being much, much better than Bogosian and with Whitney being better than Frolov... there are plenty of 66 OV defensemen in this league, not so many 74SC/82PA forwards out there...
The way I see it, you dealt a potential franchise defenseman (who is not bad defensivly... don't know where that came from) for a decent #4 defenseman and an ok prospect. I don't think that was any worse than LAs deal. If the LA deal was rejected, yours should have been also.
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Post by MontyBurns on Apr 19, 2009 18:29:52 GMT -5
without naming names, you guys are all fucked.
like instead of complaining, make a suggestion and get to work on it.
there are 26 gms, realistically 14 of them need to like your idea. If you cant get 14 you are wasting your time. Just like how i kept saying having FA compensation based on salaray instead of OV made alot more sense, no one agreed, so it didnt happen.
pitts idea of probation or a higher trade pass threshold might be interesting too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2009 19:56:09 GMT -5
And I definatly do not agree with Hedman being much, much better than Bogosian and with Whitney being better than Frolov... there are plenty of 66 OV defensemen in this league, not so many 74SC/82PA forwards out there... The way I see it, you dealt a potential franchise defenseman (who is not bad defensivly... don't know where that came from) for a decent #4 defenseman and an ok prospect. I don't think that was any worse than LAs deal. If the LA deal was rejected, yours should have been also. Number four defenseman routinely get 40 points? Bogosian is bad defensively from watching him play. Not only in the NHL but when he was in the OHL as well. Bogosian is not anywhere close to being a franchise defenseman and if not for being in Atlanta would be hard pressed to make the league before he was 25.
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Post by AvsGM on Apr 19, 2009 20:35:34 GMT -5
without naming names, you guys are all fucked I don't get it
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Post by Sharky on Apr 19, 2009 22:56:35 GMT -5
And I definatly do not agree with Hedman being much, much better than Bogosian and with Whitney being better than Frolov... there are plenty of 66 OV defensemen in this league, not so many 74SC/82PA forwards out there... The way I see it, you dealt a potential franchise defenseman (who is not bad defensivly... don't know where that came from) for a decent #4 defenseman and an ok prospect. I don't think that was any worse than LAs deal. If the LA deal was rejected, yours should have been also. Number four defenseman routinely get 40 points? Bogosian is bad defensively from watching him play. Not only in the NHL but when he was in the OHL as well. Bogosian is not anywhere close to being a franchise defenseman and if not for being in Atlanta would be hard pressed to make the league before he was 25. If you get 40 points a year AND suck on defense, ya you are a #4 defenseman. And your opinion on Bogosian is ridiculous.... he's only 18, averages 18 mins/game, had 19 points in 48 games, and was +11 on one of the worst teams in the league... in comparison Whitney had a massive 23 points in 49 games and managed to be -14 on a team with the leagues two top scorers on it. Bogosian wouldn't make most teams in the league before 25? Are the Thrashers really 7 years behind everyone else?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2009 0:43:52 GMT -5
Bogosian wouldn't make most teams in the league before 25? Are the Thrashers really 7 years behind everyone else? The Thrashers are likely 10-12 years behind everyone else. ;D
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Post by LeafsGM on Apr 20, 2009 1:59:03 GMT -5
Clearly i'm as high on bogosian as sharky, but i do feel i gave up solid value for him. I think Whits is gonna have a bounceback season starting fresh with the ducks, and he's already made a big impact on them. Just look how they're disposing of the president trophy winners. Beach is gonna be a beast, when he puts it all together, which is gonna be sooner than later. And hensick is colorado's best/most ready prospect.
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Post by MontyBurns on Apr 20, 2009 4:57:28 GMT -5
without naming names, you guys are all fucked I don't get it when i say fucked i mean arguing about a trade that went down months ago. Like, i get it, some ppl value 1sts and others dont. I happen to be in the camp that does, and i dont agree with every move made in the leaugue. But the thiong is there are 26 GMs, and if more than half dont agree with me theres nothing i can do. Im just saying, we have a choice to either stop bitching and suggest some solutions (which then have to be agreed upon) or we can replace all the gms who dont agree with our asessment. What do you guys think makes more sense?
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Post by Philly on Apr 20, 2009 9:21:34 GMT -5
It's just a discussion, Monty. My feeling is that a few rules have been changed, let's see how they work for next season, I don't see a reason to change anymore at present. Everyone has their own opinion about the worth of players, and that's the bottom line. Let's see if we can get Spock in the league, then we can all mind melt and think the same way. like robots.
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Post by Hawks on Apr 20, 2009 12:51:06 GMT -5
How exactly are Vulcans and Robots related?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2009 13:43:41 GMT -5
How exactly are Vulcans and Robots related? Both are loved equally by nerds.
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Post by Hawks on Apr 20, 2009 16:40:09 GMT -5
How exactly are Vulcans and Robots related? Both are loved equally by nerds. True enough
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