|
Post by gmcanucks on Oct 26, 2010 17:38:27 GMT -5
Since my last deal seems to have generated considerable discussion, I thought I'd add my two cents worth.
I had to check there for a minute to see if maybe I had mistakenly traded Crosby and Malkin or maybe Gretzky and Kurri...but no it's still a center who's averaged 71 points in his 4 NHL seasons and a winger who's averaged 54 over the same period. Don't get me wrong, I think both Kopitar and Brown are very good players but I don't think they fall into the franchise category. Last time I checked the franchise player in LA was Drew Doughty.
I would have loved, of course, to keep both of them, but I needed a puck moving defenseman and despite admittedly giving up the best player in Kopitar, I'm pretty sure my team is better now than it was before I made the last couple of trades. I still have an elite center in Datsyuk and a now I have a well above average puck moving defenseman in Pitkanen. Prior to the deals my 2nd line center was Todd White, so I think Oshie is a definite upgrade and he has plenty of upside. Maybe not Kopitar upside, but then again it wasn't a one-for-one deal. And Wolski, though he's a different player, offers nearly as much as Brown. Plus I picked up a 1st round pick, which is always valuable
As for not putting him on the block, I never actually expected to trade Kopitar when Ron and I started talking deal. It just sort of developed. Now I don't now how everyone else deals, but I was hardly going to say to Ron half way through "Well that's an interesting offer, but just wait while I put Kopitar on the block and see if I can do better." I'm sure he would have appreciated that.
By the way, since I put the note on the seeking players thread, I got exactly two offers , so it's not like there was a stampede of guys looking to deal me an top of the line puckmoving d-man, especailly one as affordable as Pitkanen.
|
|
|
Post by Sharky on Oct 26, 2010 19:25:55 GMT -5
Now I don't now how everyone else deals, but I was hardly going to say to Ron half way through "Well that's an interesting offer, but just wait while I put Kopitar on the block and see if I can do better." I'm sure he would have appreciated that. . That is actually common practice in this league. It has happened to me several times this year.
|
|
|
Post by AvsGM on Oct 26, 2010 20:11:11 GMT -5
Now I don't now how everyone else deals, but I was hardly going to say to Ron half way through "Well that's an interesting offer, but just wait while I put Kopitar on the block and see if I can do better." I'm sure he would have appreciated that. . That is actually common practice in this league. It has happened to me several times this year. Yeah it's happened to me a few times too There are a couple of GMs that are notorious for this practice
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2010 17:39:30 GMT -5
Great return for Tampa! Anytime you can get a 1st rounder for a 3rd/4th liner you win huge
|
|
|
Post by Philly on Nov 7, 2010 17:59:05 GMT -5
yeah those 22 goals he scored last season or the 19 before that or the 18 he's on pace for just a fluke. Guess nhl dallas really fucked up drafting a skilled tough guy in the 1st rd. He's a nice fit on my team and adds checking and scoring to my team- he also can play all three forward positions, he only cost 500,000. Guess that very low no1 huge.
|
|
|
Post by Hawks on Nov 7, 2010 18:23:54 GMT -5
yeah those 22 goals he scored last season or the 19 before that or the 18 he's on pace for just a fluke. Guess nhl dallas really fucked up drafting a skilled tough guy in the 1st rd. He's a nice fit on my team and adds checking and scoring to my team- he also can play all three forward positions, he only cost 500,000. Guess that very low no1 huge. I don't see how to expect him to score any goals with a 33 DI, he's gonna be good for at least 1 penalty per game, likely 2. BTW - He's also on pace for about 114 PIMs so far this year too. A 1st round pick for Ott is pretty bad all by itself, much less including another player at well, and only getting a 4th back? Yikes I gotta vote no, sometimes you have to save people from themselves.
|
|
|
Post by Philly on Nov 7, 2010 18:33:43 GMT -5
yeah those 22 goals he scored last season or the 19 before that or the 18 he's on pace for just a fluke. Guess nhl dallas really fucked up drafting a skilled tough guy in the 1st rd. He's a nice fit on my team and adds checking and scoring to my team- he also can play all three forward positions, he only cost 500,000. Guess that very low no1 huge. I don't see how to expect him to score any goals with a 33 DI, he's gonna be good for at least 1 penalty per game, likely 2. BTW - He's also on pace for about 114 PIMs so far this year too. A 1st round pick for Ott is pretty bad all by itself, much less including another player at well, and only getting a 4th back? Yikes I gotta vote no, sometimes you have to save people from themselves. That's cool, hope I get a chance to save you as well, problably your next trade ;D Yep always takin those penalties has 9 pts. for JGHL TB 5 goals 4 assists
|
|
|
Post by Sharky on Nov 7, 2010 19:46:31 GMT -5
Despite his DI, I still think Ott is a useful player. Still too much for him though Kobasew has got to get out of Minny. That team is killing his career. He's supposed to be in his prime, which, based on his past performance in Boston, should be 20-30 goals.
|
|
|
Post by Hawks on Nov 7, 2010 19:49:57 GMT -5
I don't see how to expect him to score any goals with a 33 DI, he's gonna be good for at least 1 penalty per game, likely 2. BTW - He's also on pace for about 114 PIMs so far this year too. A 1st round pick for Ott is pretty bad all by itself, much less including another player at well, and only getting a 4th back? Yikes I gotta vote no, sometimes you have to save people from themselves. That's cool, hope I get a chance to save you as well, problably your next trade ;D Yep always takin those penalties has 9 pts. for JGHL TB 5 goals 4 assists Hey, Jarkko has 4 goals for me, want him for a 1st round pick? lol
|
|
|
Post by MontyBurns on Nov 7, 2010 21:33:07 GMT -5
first rounders arent nothing.
Its been a problem for a long time, and even though its getting better it still is a problem.
Teams like calgary were built off people not understanding how to build from the draft.
Also had to vote no.
Send him a low 2nd or something
|
|
|
Post by Sharky on Nov 7, 2010 21:45:27 GMT -5
I think some over value 1st rounders too. The Flames were not built through the draft. I'd argue Ralph built his team more through trading. Lots of good first round picks, but other than Malkin, none are really impact players yet Duchene should be one after this season. '04 # 2 Evgeni Malkin '04 # 15 Andrej Meszaros '05 # 3 Benoit Pouliot '05 # 17 Matt Lashoff '05 # 21 Jakub Kindl '06 # 7 Peter Mueller '06 # 11 Kyle Okposo '07 # 2 Kyle Turris '07 # 6 Jakub Voracek '07 # 25 Traded '08 # 12 Colten Teubert '08 # 18 Eric Karlsson '08 # 19 Michael Del Zotto '08 # 24 John Carlson '08 # 26 Mattias Tedenby ---------------------- '09 # 3 Matt Duchene '09 # 11 Ryan Ellis '09 # 22 Dylan Olsen '09 # 26 Carter Ashton '10 # 10 Nino Niederreiter '10 # 11 Jeff Skinner '10 # 24 Beau Bennett
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2010 22:21:22 GMT -5
I think some over value 1st rounders too. The Flames were not built through the draft. I'd argue Ralph built his team more through trading. Lots of good first round picks, but other than Malkin, none are really impact players yet Duchene should be one after this season. '04 # 2 Evgeni Malkin '04 # 15 Andrej Meszaros '05 # 3 Benoit Pouliot '05 # 17 Matt Lashoff '05 # 21 Jakub Kindl '06 # 7 Peter Mueller '06 # 11 Kyle Okposo '07 # 2 Kyle Turris '07 # 6 Jakub Voracek '07 # 25 Traded '08 # 12 Colten Teubert '08 # 18 Eric Karlsson '08 # 19 Michael Del Zotto '08 # 24 John Carlson '08 # 26 Mattias Tedenby ---------------------- '09 # 3 Matt Duchene '09 # 11 Ryan Ellis '09 # 22 Dylan Olsen '09 # 26 Carter Ashton '10 # 10 Nino Niederreiter '10 # 11 Jeff Skinner '10 # 24 Beau Bennett First rounders take some time to develop, especially a year behind on the JGHL, but already so many of those players are on pace to making a big name for themselves, even as late 1st round picks. Even if you don't intend to use them are your team, you can use them as trade bait for already established NHL players, which is what Calgary has done. Guess I'm more on the side that picks are pretty useful to have.
|
|
|
Post by MontyBurns on Nov 7, 2010 22:50:17 GMT -5
I think some over value 1st rounders too. The Flames were not built through the draft. I'd argue Ralph built his team more through trading. Lots of good first round picks, but other than Malkin, none are really impact players yet Duchene should be one after this season. '04 # 2 Evgeni Malkin '04 # 15 Andrej Meszaros '06 # 7 Peter Mueller '06 # 11 Kyle Okposo '07 # 6 Jakub Voracek '08 # 12 Colten Teubert '08 # 18 Eric Karlsson '08 # 19 Michael Del Zotto '08 # 24 John Carlson '08 # 26 Mattias Tedenby ---------------------- '09 # 3 Matt Duchene '09 # 11 Ryan Ellis '09 # 22 Dylan Olsen '10 # 10 Nino Niederreiter '10 # 11 Jeff Skinner I really hope youre not serious. I took out the middling names above. Every playver above is top 6 or top 4. Many of them are or have the potential to be stars. Another fact is that alot of his picks were traded after their post-draft stocks went up. Basically if you think this list, or your unedited list proves your point i really dont see how.
|
|
|
Post by Philly on Nov 7, 2010 23:32:12 GMT -5
I think some over value 1st rounders too. The Flames were not built through the draft. I'd argue Ralph built his team more through trading. Lots of good first round picks, but other than Malkin, none are really impact players yet Duchene should be one after this season. '04 # 2 Evgeni Malkin '04 # 15 Andrej Meszaros '06 # 7 Peter Mueller '06 # 11 Kyle Okposo '07 # 6 Jakub Voracek '08 # 12 Colten Teubert '08 # 18 Eric Karlsson '08 # 19 Michael Del Zotto '08 # 24 John Carlson '08 # 26 Mattias Tedenby ---------------------- '09 # 3 Matt Duchene '09 # 11 Ryan Ellis '09 # 22 Dylan Olsen '10 # 10 Nino Niederreiter '10 # 11 Jeff Skinner Many of them are or have the potential to be stars. Potential is what makes great trade bait, but how many reach their potential? I'd rather have an established good player hittin his prime, unless you can promise me a Stamkos all the time, the pick I traded looks like a 24th or 25th pick, Ott was a 25th.
|
|
|
Post by MontyBurns on Nov 7, 2010 23:58:52 GMT -5
you guys are always saying potential this, potential that, its not a good player yet, so its not worth anything.....
Look at the late picks on that list, Carlson (now #2 d behind green), Olsen (still recent, but the #1 potential guy in CHIs loaded system), and tedenby is succeeding against men in sweeden.
Do you want to be the 2003-20?? leafs?Theyre a perfect example of what happens when you trade away picks for middling talent consistently.
|
|