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Post by AvsGM on Nov 8, 2010 0:01:54 GMT -5
.....the pick I traded looks like a 24th or 25th pick, Ott was a 25th. You plan on finishing in the top 3?
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Post by Philly on Nov 8, 2010 0:24:36 GMT -5
.....the pick I traded looks like a 24th or 25th pick, Ott was a 25th. You plan on finishing in the top 3? That's Toronto's no1, not mine lol No way should this trade be rejected, for a low no1 c'mon guys.
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Post by LeafsGM on Nov 8, 2010 0:25:10 GMT -5
Meh, i really don't see a problem with this trade. Ott has perfect 3rd line winger ratings. Ray can switch him to RW and roll solid 3 lines. My 2011 is gonna be in the 22-26 range, unless something goes horribly wrong. 2011 draft is not as deep as the past few have been. Once again we're being a little too subjective on a deal.
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Post by Philly on Nov 8, 2010 0:36:45 GMT -5
Meh, i really don't see a problem with this trade. Ott has perfect 3rd line winger ratings. Ray can switch him to RW and roll solid 3 lines. My 2011 is gonna be in the 22-26 range, unless something goes horribly wrong. 2011 draft is not as deep as the past few have been. Once again we're being a little too subjective on a deal. Yep you hit the nail on the head Eug, that was my plan, he's a huge pick-up for me and was goin to the right side for sure, and I didn't expect to get him cheap when I was shoppin.
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Post by Hawks on Nov 8, 2010 0:49:00 GMT -5
I don't see how you got him "cheap".
Every year we say the same thing "draft isn't as deep this year" when they have all been very deep, especially with the NHL being really big on young talent with the salary cap poking its head into things more and more.
I don't care personally if he is 22 or 26, a player drafted 22nd Overall has LOADS more potential that Ott has in his pinky finger.
Do you think any NHL GM in their right mind would trade a 1st round pick for Steve Ott?! Never in a million years, not even 30th Overall.
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Post by Philly on Nov 8, 2010 0:56:07 GMT -5
I don't see how you got him "cheap". Every year we say the same thing "draft isn't as deep this year" when they have all been very deep, especially with the NHL being really big on young talent with the salary cap poking its head into things more and more. I don't care personally if he is 22 or 26, a player drafted 22nd Overall has LOADS more potential that Ott has in his pinky finger. Do you think any NHL GM in their right mind would trade a 1st round pick for Steve Ott?! Never in a million years. I didn't say i got him cheap, I said i didn't expect to get him cheap. That's funny you said that since Dallas drafted him 25th guess that means OTT had or has potential. Some of you guys comment and don't do your homework, or even pay attention to what was already said, what a drag that is.
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Post by Hawks on Nov 8, 2010 1:07:44 GMT -5
I don't see how you got him "cheap". Every year we say the same thing "draft isn't as deep this year" when they have all been very deep, especially with the NHL being really big on young talent with the salary cap poking its head into things more and more. I don't care personally if he is 22 or 26, a player drafted 22nd Overall has LOADS more potential that Ott has in his pinky finger. Do you think any NHL GM in their right mind would trade a 1st round pick for Steve Ott?! Never in a million years. I didn't say i got him cheap, I said i didn't expect to get him cheap. That's funny you said that since Dallas drafted him 25th guess that means OTT had or has potential. Some of you guys comment and don't do your homework, or even pay attention to what was already siad, what a drag that is. So he was drafted 25th overall...so what? You're telling me Ott has met or exceeded the potential a 25th overall pick is suppose to have? Not a chance. Career Numbers in the NHL for Steve Ott- 423 Games 65 Goals 89 Assists 154 Points (0.36 points per game) -10 849 PIMs (2 minutes per game average) Those are 3rd round pick numbers, maybe low 2nd. Just because Dallas took him early doesn't mean it was a smart thing to do, certainly hasn't won them any Cups as of late
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 1:59:19 GMT -5
Look it is my deal so obviously I am going to be biased but no way is Ott a typical 3rd round pick.
Any pick after the 15th that plays as much and as well as he has is a great pick.
TO's pick is going to be late because Eug has built his team up well.
The voting was done to stop teams from hampering their own development (if I am not mistaken) and Ray gets a a clear top 9 NHL player while giving up the slight chance that I luck out and pick a guy that might make an NHL game at one point.
Having Ott on his team does not hurt his team. It does not put him at a disadvantage and unless Eug guts his team in the next 10 weeks he likely comes out with the best player in the deal easily in the end.
As I have said all along people have to stop voting against deals they don't like personally and start realizing that the vote was made to stop deals that hurt teams long term and makes them less competitive. There has to be some leeway to allow GM's to shape their teams the way they like.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 2:06:49 GMT -5
Something to add which is something that I have felt for awhile and think I have said before but will say again.
I really think that if you vote no you should have to state why you did, even if it is to gavin or Jon although I think it should be public. I am not just saying this because of this deal but I have seen enough deals that are easily no problem deals with a pain in the ass 1 vote no.
The system was developed to stop teams from ruining their teams and thus making them undisrable to new GM's it wasn't put in place for GM's to say what they would do in the same situation. The fun of league's like this is that guys have different opinions and if people use votes as an approval rating for all deals then no fun/big trades will happen.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 2:09:42 GMT -5
Sorry for the triple posts in a row but I have a new trade coming up which you can all hate from my end to make up for this one if you don't like it.
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Post by Hawks on Nov 8, 2010 2:15:07 GMT -5
Look it is my deal so obviously I am going to be biased but no way is Ott a typical 3rd round pick. Any pick after the 15th that plays as much and as well as he has is a great pick. TO's pick is going to be late because Eug has built his team up well. The voting was done to stop teams from hampering their own development (if I am not mistaken) No, ANY player drafted in the 1st round that ends up with Ott's numbers is considered a "wash". He is very much a 3rd round pick. Look at other 3rd round picks still playing in the NHL, they are all "tough guys" with poor numbers. Its like saying I should get a 1st round for Mike Grier (a 9th round pick, with better career numbers btw) or Jarkko Ruutu, anyone wanna make that deal? I'll do it in a second! Hampering his own development is exactly what I feel Ray (Dad) is doing, especially since he's NEVER made a 1st round selection in the history of the league. Also, that pick can go for a LOT more than a 3rd Line player. I say again, would any NHL GM in his right mind trade a 1st round pick (any pick) for Steve Ott?? NO WAY!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 2:30:28 GMT -5
Most 1st round picks, especially outside the first round are lucky if they see 100 games.
If they end up being legit NHL players that is a huge bonus.
The amount of 1st busts is amazing.
if every 3rd round pick put up Steve Ott numbers the NHL would be amazing and the Flames would be competing for the Cup every year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 2:31:05 GMT -5
Also Mike Grier sucks badly when compared to Steve Ott.
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Post by gmcanucks on Nov 8, 2010 6:59:45 GMT -5
I agree with the Leafs and the participants in this deal (Philly and Tampa) that there's nothing wrong it. Just because you might think that one team paid a little more than you would for a particular player, should not be reason enough to reject the trade.
We're talking about, worse case scenario, a 22-26 pick overall, not a top 5 pick. If you look at the guys who've been selected 22nd overall the past 12 years, it doesn't read like a list of NHL Hall of famers.
Just for argument sake, here are the players selected 22nd over the past 12 years with their career games and points:
99 - Maxime Oulett - 53 NHL GP 00 - David Hale - 310 GP, 25 pts 01 - Jiri Novotny - 189 GP, 51 pts 02 - Sean Bergenheim - 259 GP, 86pts 03 - Marc-Antoine Pouliot - 176 GP, 53 pts 04 - Lukas Kaspar - 16GP, 4 Pts 05 - Matt Lashoff - 63GP, 15 pts 06 - Clause Giroux - 140GP, 88 pts 07 - Max Pacioretty - 86 GP, 25 pts 08- Jordan Eberle - 11 GP, 8 pts 09 - Jordan Schroeder - 0 GP, 0 Pts 10 - Jarred Tinordi - 0 GP, 0 Pts
So except for Giroux and quite likely Eberle, you can make a case that Ott is a better player than 10 of the 12 players selected at #22.
In my opinion, the only two reasons for rejecting a deal are 1) obvious colussion among owners and 2) obvious evidence of a GM being taken advantage of by another GM.
I don't see either of these things in this deal.
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Post by Hawks on Nov 8, 2010 10:40:07 GMT -5
Everyone from 07-10 hasn't had enough NHL time to make any conclusion about them, Pacioretty for example was sent back down to develop more. Pacioretty has never played a full season in the NHL yet, I'd also put him as a player likely to exceed Ott statistically.
Bergenheim will likely have a career year (already off to a great start) with his new team and is a better all around player than Ott has ever been.
After all these years, people STILL can't see the value in 1st round draft selections.
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