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Post by AvsGM on Jul 14, 2014 20:11:05 GMT -5
Why do we need to force more back up starts than are seen in the NHL? We're not. Last season the most games started was 64, so we're forcing less backup starts at 69. You're suggesting letting goalies start between 72-75 games (7-10 for backups). I'll go back 11 seasons for these numbers, no season in 2004-05. Goalies that started in 72 games or more..... 2002-03 = 2 2003-04 = 4 2005-06 = 3 2006-07 = 3 2007-08 = 6 2008-09 = 2 2009-10 = 4 2010-11 = 1 2011-12 = 2 2012-13 = 3 on pace 2013-14 = 0 Other than 07-08 those numbers are pretty slim. In contrast we had 11 goalies start 72 or more games last season. If you want goalies to be able to start in the 72-75 range then we're really not changing much.
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Post by Hawks on Jul 14, 2014 20:24:45 GMT -5
Backups start more than 7-10 games a year on average Jake, its more like 20 honestly. Antti Raanta played in 25 games for the defending Stanley Cup champs, his W-L-T record is 22, so he relieved about 3 times? Quick's backup, rookie Martin Jones played in 19.
I dunno where you're getting the 7-10 number, but thats WAY off.
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Post by Sharky on Jul 14, 2014 20:42:59 GMT -5
I'm not talking about averages. I'm saying every year, except for last year, there are 2-4 goalies that are able to start 70+ games. I'm not an owner of one of those goalies so I'm not going to bitch that much, but if I were I'd be kind of pissed I couldn't start him as many times as he did in the real NHL. It doesn't seem fair that those elite 2-4 goalies are brought down by the league for the sake of keeping the "average" realistic.
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Post by Philly on Jul 15, 2014 8:51:51 GMT -5
I think 72 makes more sense for everyone. Gm's with elite Goalies can start them 72 times, and teams with low rated back-ups only have to start them 10 times.
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Post by RangersRon on Jul 15, 2014 9:18:08 GMT -5
For now I am in good shape whether I start one or the other, but that may not hold true this coming season. I believe backups should play 12 to 15 games. It is closer to what happens in NHL. Also it would force GMs to send in lines more often and have to think about what games they want backup to play. It also takes away any schedule issues that one team may have that others don't like playing 3 games in row two or three times during season while some teams only have a number of back to back with no 3 game series...Advantage....
Put two numbers to a vote and lets go from there - 68 or 72, period!
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Post by Hawks on Jul 15, 2014 9:20:55 GMT -5
10 starts is WAY too few. If it was my choice alone it would be at least 15, up to maybe 20. I really don't care that 2 goalies in the NHL started 72 games, thats a choice, the NHL average is the number we should focus on, since we are attempting realism. You can't base realism on 2-4 goalies out of 30.
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Post by RangersRon on Jul 15, 2014 9:32:20 GMT -5
10 starts is WAY too few. If it was my choice alone it would be at least 15, up to maybe 20. I really don't care that 2 goalies in the NHL started 72 games, thats a choice, the NHL average is the number we should focus on, since we are attempting realism. You can't base realism on 2-4 goalies out of 30. Then put to a vote of 64 and 68!
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Post by Sharky on Jul 15, 2014 15:33:53 GMT -5
10 starts is WAY too few. If it was my choice alone it would be at least 15, up to maybe 20. I really don't care that 2 goalies in the NHL started 72 games, thats a choice, the NHL average is the number we should focus on, since we are attempting realism. You can't base realism on 2-4 goalies out of 30. You can't base it off of averages either.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 16:15:09 GMT -5
Would it be ridiculous to cap each starter based on how many starts they had the previous year? Probbaly
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Post by Hawks on Jul 15, 2014 16:37:15 GMT -5
10 starts is WAY too few. If it was my choice alone it would be at least 15, up to maybe 20. I really don't care that 2 goalies in the NHL started 72 games, thats a choice, the NHL average is the number we should focus on, since we are attempting realism. You can't base realism on 2-4 goalies out of 30. You can't base it off of averages either. Why not? The average is a hell of a lot closer to realism than only the highest extreme
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Post by gmcanucks on Jul 15, 2014 18:16:02 GMT -5
Would it be ridiculous to cap each starter based on how many starts they had the previous year? Probbaly Darren, I think that's a great idea. If we make it so that it's each GM's responsibility there would be no extra work for Jon. If you have to monitor things to ensure you don't pass a certain number (say 69 as suggested), why would it be any harder to monitor for the actual number of starts your goalie had in the previous NHL season. It also kind of addresses Jake's concerns. If next year as he suspects, there are goalies with more than 70 starts, those goalie will be permitted to start that many games the following season.
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Post by Sharky on Jul 15, 2014 18:51:50 GMT -5
The problem with that is that for some teams, their combined goalie GP may not reach 82 games. So if a team is essentially running two backups because they do not have a starter, they may run out of starts for their goalies! I think the idea is a good start though. How about this:
If your goalie has played more games in the NHL than the JGHL's max game limit, you would be allowed to exceed the JGHL limit until you hit the number of games they played in the NHL.
This would be pretty easy to track as there are only a handful of goalies that would qualify. Plus, I'm sure us competitive GMs would also check our rivals.
Seems like a solution that would make everyone happy.
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Post by gmcanucks on Jul 15, 2014 20:45:12 GMT -5
The problem with that is that for some teams, their combined goalie GP may not reach 82 games. So if a team is essentially running two backups because they do not have a starter, they may run out of starts for their goalies! I think the idea is a good start though. How about this: If your goalie has played more games in the NHL than the JGHL's max game limit, you would be allowed to exceed the JGHL limit until you hit the number of games they played in the NHL. This would be pretty easy to track as there are only a handful of goalies that would qualify. Plus, I'm sure us competitive GMs would also check our rivals. Seems like a solution that would make everyone happy. So because Carey Price started 70 games four years ago and started 59 and 65 in his last two full seasons, never before or again approaching 70, he should get to start 70 games this year? That doesn't make sense to me. I think we would at least need a time limit. I personally think it should be the number of games the goalie played last year, but I can see a case for going back the last two full seasons (in this year's case 2013-14 and 2011-12, leaving out 2012-13 because of the lockout).
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Post by Sharky on Jul 15, 2014 21:00:31 GMT -5
You did not understand my explanation because that is not what I am proposing.
If a goalie played over the game limit in the NHL the year the ratings are based off of, that goalie can play up the the number of games he played in the NHL the last season and exceed the max GP in the JGHL.
For example, let's say Lundqvist played 75 games last year and we set the GP limit to 69. All other goalies played 69 games or less. Lundqvist would be allowed to play up to 75 games. All other goalies would still be subjected to the cap.
I don't see how anyone could be against that.
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Post by gmcanucks on Jul 16, 2014 3:02:11 GMT -5
Sorry, Jake. Misunderstood your first post. I think your idea has merit, but I also think the initial cap should be a bit lower, say 65 games. Goalies who started more than 65 games in the previous NHL season would be allowed to start that number in the subsequent JGHL season.
For example, if Carey Price starts 70 games during the 2014-2015 NHL season, he'll be permitted to start up to 70 games during the 2015-2016 JGHL season.
I think this addresses Jake's concern of not penalizing goalies who, in reality, do start a higher than normal number of games, while at the same time taking into account the feelings of the GMs who think the back-up goalie should start a more realistic number of times.
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